Whaling: Right or Wrong?
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I'm curious...what has shark finning got to do with whaling? AFAIK the whaling nations don't eat shark fins :06:Diver Dennis:
KOMPRESSOR
Contributor
Some of you are talking like all whale species are almost extinct. The only species we're cathcing up here north are minkes and they are by not far extinct. According to independent research there are 120.000 (at least) of them up here north. How many there are of the southern kind I don't know. So I can't say much about the Japanese catching. But the fact is, we (Norway) are catching about as many as the Japanese are this year, +/- 1000. It has no influence on the northern whale population. And although research is beeing done, wo do not hide our catching behind this. We do it for the meat.
It has been pointed out that there has been an historical decrease of the minke population in the north as well. This is correct. But what do you want? Do you really think the northern oceans could support a population of 220.000 minkes? We are struggling to keep the ocean's resourses in balance. It isn't easy, as we have Spanish , Russian and even British trawlers underreporting their catch, or even goes on a plain pirate fishing trip up in our waters (Norway are in charge of administrating the quotas, but many nations participate in the fishing after international agreements). As of today and I am sure for all future, mankind will depend on the oceans for food. We cannot "leave it alone" and eat vegetables for the rest of our days. Some people argue we can, but I do not agree with them.
For those who think whale meat is something with lots of fat and blubber, and discusting to eat, I can assure you that most of you would really like it as for taste goes if you had it properly prepared. It's very lean. In fact so lean that it is a challenge to prepare. But anyone who is used to preparing venison can make great dishes with it. It is also a very healthy kind of meat compared to beef and pork.
It has been pointed out that there are feelings involved, and that whales are such beautiful animals we shouldn't kill them. I'm sorry I don't see it the same way. I mean, have you ever met the animals you have for dinner? They are not ugly at all! If you think so, you have different sences than I have... Whales a impressive and seals may be "cute". But are they more "worthy" creatures because of your human emotions?
How many of you are able and willing to kill and prepare your own food "from scratch"?
Keep your perspectives right. Stay rational.
It has been pointed out that there has been an historical decrease of the minke population in the north as well. This is correct. But what do you want? Do you really think the northern oceans could support a population of 220.000 minkes? We are struggling to keep the ocean's resourses in balance. It isn't easy, as we have Spanish , Russian and even British trawlers underreporting their catch, or even goes on a plain pirate fishing trip up in our waters (Norway are in charge of administrating the quotas, but many nations participate in the fishing after international agreements). As of today and I am sure for all future, mankind will depend on the oceans for food. We cannot "leave it alone" and eat vegetables for the rest of our days. Some people argue we can, but I do not agree with them.
For those who think whale meat is something with lots of fat and blubber, and discusting to eat, I can assure you that most of you would really like it as for taste goes if you had it properly prepared. It's very lean. In fact so lean that it is a challenge to prepare. But anyone who is used to preparing venison can make great dishes with it. It is also a very healthy kind of meat compared to beef and pork.
It has been pointed out that there are feelings involved, and that whales are such beautiful animals we shouldn't kill them. I'm sorry I don't see it the same way. I mean, have you ever met the animals you have for dinner? They are not ugly at all! If you think so, you have different sences than I have... Whales a impressive and seals may be "cute". But are they more "worthy" creatures because of your human emotions?
How many of you are able and willing to kill and prepare your own food "from scratch"?
Keep your perspectives right. Stay rational.
dlndavid:
not yet this year. Still have a free water spot. But we shoul discuss it in the MOF thread
KOMPRESSOR:Some of you are talking like all whale species are almost extinct. The only species we're cathcing up here north are minkes and they are by not far extinct. According to independent research there are 120.000 (at least) of them up here north. How many there are of the southern kind I don't know. So I can't say much about the Japanese catching. But the fact is, we (Norway) are catching about as many as the Japanese are this year, +/- 1000. It has no influence on the northern whale population. And although research is beeing done, wo do not hide our catching behind this. We do it for the meat.
It has been pointed out that there has been an historical decrease of the minke population in the north as well. This is correct. But what do you want? Do you really think the northern oceans could support a population of 220.000 minkes? We are struggling to keep the ocean's resourses in balance. It isn't easy, as we have Spanish , Russian and even British trawlers underreporting their catch, or even goes on a plain pirate fishing trip up in our waters (Norway are in charge of administrating the quotas, but many nations participate in the fishing after international agreements). As of today and I am sure for all future, mankind will depend on the oceans for food. We cannot "leave it alone" and eat vegetables for the rest of our days. Some people argue we can, but I do not agree with them.
For those who think whale meat is something with lots of fat and blubber, and discusting to eat, I can assure you that most of you would really like it as for taste goes if you had it properly prepared. It's very lean. In fact so lean that it is a challenge to prepare. But anyone who is used to preparing venison can make great dishes with it. It is also a very healthy kind of meat compared to beef and pork.
It has been pointed out that there are feelings involved, and that whales are such beautiful animals we shouldn't kill them. I'm sorry I don't see it the same way. I mean, have you ever met the animals you have for dinner? They are not ugly at all! If you think so, you have different sences than I have... Whales a impressive and seals may be "cute". But are they more "worthy" creatures because of your human emotions?
How many of you are able and willing to kill and prepare your own food "from scratch"?
Keep your perspectives right. Stay rational.
Great picture Kompressor. never saw a spotted sea cow before
If minks are not endangered at all or decreasing in a dangerous way, I dont see any problem about hunting them according to quotas and regulations based on studies of how much they can support the harvesting. Seals have become a problem because of emotional actions of Brigitte Bardot and her kind. She doesn't give a dang about cod and doesn't know zit about ecosystems and balance. We messed with mother Nature and now, we have to help keep the balance. If we fish cod and let seals population overgrow, the cod population will soon be extinct... but yeah, cods aint cuddly.
btw, I eat meat. When I hunt, kill, skin and cut the animal, I feel less hypocrit than if I buy it from a nice grocery wrapping. I eat and use everything i can. I do it with the knowledge that it comes from an animal and respect and thank it for what it will give me. Pork is a pig, sirloin is a cow, brocoli is a living organism as worthy as any.
We should be more concerned about pollution and habitat destruction because it's far more destructive than ANY hunting and it's caused by humans also but from every country. But hey, if a specie is already down, no use finishing it by hunting of course. In those case, protection is required. As for the minks, I dont know if they are endangered or not. I will do an unbiased research about it (meaning I wont read Greenpeace articles) and make my own opinion. At least, this thread will have had that good effect.
smile everyone or come relax in the MOF thread
wardric:
Unbiased research suggests openess to all sources of information - including Greenpeace. Apart from Greenpeace's negative image to some, they do maintain a comprehensive data base. Again, this issue is highly politicized and facts muddied by spin. Data is often difficult to obtain and assess considering the migratory nature of the whale, research expense and the very fact that there aren't a whole lot of these critters out there. I spent a fair amount at open sea and spotting some of the big ones were a rare treat.
The issues that I see are:
* Sustainability of whaling stocks (Minke & others). Cows, pigs etc. are sustainable stocks.
* Disclosure - Is Japan using research as a cover for what is essentially harvesting. Data is certainly garnered by carcasses, but an equivalent method is taking flesh samples which give almost equivalent metrics without having to bag the animal.
* Politics
jbilicska
Contributor
KOMPRESSOR:
Mr.X:
I understand your point. but not only farm animals can be sustainable. Deer is sustainable in my area and they are a wild animal. Chicken could become unsustainable with the new asian disease. But this point is good, I agree.
As for unbiased research, I try to discard extreme position. It goes as well for Greenpeace as for the whaling industry. WWF (not the world wrestling federation here but the wildlife one), PETA and the like are other sources I dont trust. This would also include political government involved in whaling fisheries (Japan, Russia and Norway). Politicians have other interests than only environmental ones.
I used to be a big Greenpeace fan. They lost my trust due to some actions that involve more emotions than rationality (seals for example). trust is hard to regain.
cyklon_300
Contributor
wardric:
are you going to rely on that are completely unbiased? Discarding industry, activist, and governmental research information is going to leave you with a very reduced dataset.
Assuming you can create a pool of perfectly non-biased data (not sure such a thing even exists) to digest, do you have any way to statistically evaluate them. How will you interpret data for population dynamics, sustainability of specific marine mammal stocks, effects of various proposed harvesting pressures, contaminant loading in prey species affecting reproductive rates, etc etc etc, these and a multitude of other factors all need to be considered.
Whaling is completely unnecessary, that is a certainty. There are no essential products that whaling provides the world economy that cannot be obtained from other organic or synthetic sources. The miniscule number of global jobs created by whaling has virtually no impact on any nation's labor/unemployment issues. There are probably more blacksmiths on the planet than whalers.
Countries want to continue whaling simply because it is another profitable means of exploiting marine resources. No more, no less. If the pro-whaling factions can successfully demonstrate that stocks can support harvesting, it'll happen.
KOMPRESSOR
Contributor
jbilicska:
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