Whaling: Right or Wrong?

[Supernal]

Perhaps when all nations stop treating the oceans, and the entire planet, as an all-you-can-eat buffet we won't have a problem anymore.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

how on earth does me saying that hunting roughly 2,000 out of at least 700,000 individuals does not constitute "over-hunting" have anything to do with introducing a
foreign species into an established ecosystem?

It has to do with the historical success of mankind's presumtion that we know how to successfully harvest natural resources without impact, or introduce species without impact, or drill for oil without impact...which time and time again has been proven wrong despite the thinking of the day. I think you are being presumptive, and your self-assuredness may look just as ridiculous as that of the people who looked to solve Hawaii's invasive rat problem with invasive mongoose.

I don't need to first see proof that a practice is destructive to know it is destructive. Too bad others need to see something destroyed before they can admit it is being destroyed. With whales, it's easy math.

1. We (mankind) have hammered whales of almost all species. Their numbers are greatly diminished.
2. No one, Japanese or otherwise, relies on whale meat for sustenance.
3. Therefore - Leave the remaining whales alone.

To me, that's the only conclusion that a rational person can draw, much less a diver who appreciates the beauty and wonder of the sea. Why hunt them if we don't have to, given our historical success with sustainible hunting of whales? Or sustainable harvesting of any natural resource for that matter.

Why do it just because it can't be proven to do harm?

 

[Captain CaveMan]

they do it because thats how they were raised up. they think its ok. you were brought up to think that it is wrong to hunt whales... just leave it as that.. there is nothing you can do to change it so just ignore it. if Greenpeace cant take them down (witch I'm happy about.) because its there right and there culture to do it.) LET IT GO. there not hurting you

 

[jagfish]

As Kim said, this kind of thread comes up at least once a year. It often has Japan as it's main Villain. I've wondered why the remaining European whaling cultures don't get the attention. Maybe it's a numbers thing (Japan harvests larger numbers?), or maybe Japanese seem more foreign, maybe it's a combination of both.

Of all such threads I've read, I think this one might be the most civil. Good points have been made on both sides, with some nonsense thrown in now and then.

A couple points I'd like to address...
First, as Kim alluded to, since Japan depends a great deal on the sea, the country puts a great deal of resources toward understanding and protecting the seas. Furthermore, the fishermen are a powerful group, economically and politically (as divers can attest to).However, I'm with Andy on the Scientific research label seems dodgy.

Second, people find it hard to understand why a culture would want to consume whales. We look at whales and hear music and imagine kids movies. Older generation folks here in Japan see something that is on the menu. Period. I think the younger generation here likely feels differently since younger folks have never eaten whale.

Caveman- download the Google browser bar. It has a spell- checker built in. Quite handy, other great features as well.

 

[Captain CaveMan]

I use the spell check on this site. its in the top left

 

[TeqP]

Whether the Japanese "research" boats like it or not, they better be on the look out for the Farley Mowat. http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/whales.html They should be meeting up very soon.

According to Greenpeace's website, Over the next 2 years 40 more fin whales will be added to the annual kill along with 50 humpback whales. All for "research"!:huh: Using these "special permits" as a rationale for the hunting bothers me. Hmmm....let's see find 'em, kill 'em, weigh 'em, then package 'em for the market.
Let's just call it what it really is, killing whales for $$$.

 

[H2Andy]

I think you are being presumptive, and your self-assuredness may look just as ridiculous

ok, fist you called me deceitful (and when i showed you evidence
that you were wrong, you refused to acknowledge it). now i am
"presumptive" and "ridiculous"

those are not arguments; those are ad-hominem attacks

i find it sad that you have to resort to personal attacks to address
my arguments. tells me that you don't know how.

we could, you know, agree to discuss things civily without recourse
to emotional appeals and name-calling

 

[Kim]

To me it's clear that there will always be disagreements on this sort of topic. Some people will always be for and some against. That doesn't bother me. I personally wouldn't eat whale meat as I wouldn't want them killed for my benefit. I would consider myself a complete hypocrite though if I tried to force that belief onto my wife who was brought up eating whale and sees nothing wrong with it at all.
What does bother me about threads such as this though is the outrageous presumption of people who state things like - 'They should be ashamed...'
Who died and made you God? Why is your belief so much more 'right' than that of my wife? What makes you think that your culture and practices are so much better than others who are different to you? And what culture is that anyway - is Australia still Aborigine? - is America still Indian? Why any of you feel that you have a right to simply attack the Japanese for something they've done for centuries is completely beyond me. Personally I think that these threads infringe our TOS by singling out the Japanese in this way. I don't moderate for that though as I recognize that I have a vested interest in this country so I don't believe it would be ethical. I do however respond forcefully when faced with such a thread as an ordinary member. Jagfish wondered why people do it - I just see it as racism.

 

[Captain CaveMan]

Go Kim and H2 Andy Humuhumunukunukuapua'a makes lots of personal attacks on others to make himself feel superior.

Thats realy not kool in my book.

 

[Mr.X]

One could insert <United States residents> in this statement almost as easily. Note I didn't say "Americans" although it is probably true of those who live in urban environs.

As I tried to say earlier, while the Japanese may deserve criticism for their whaling activities, there are many other (most?) countries including the United States that are equally deserving. This does not apologize for, or justify the behavior of the Japanese. What it does say is something to the effect of "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!"

I agree Bill. The US, as well as other nations has been less than forthcoming or apologetic about their wrongs to others and the environment. It boils down to inhumanity against one another, the critters on this planet and the environment.

The one thing I tried unsuccessfully (with the 70&#8217;s version of Greenpeace) was to shift, or at least promote conversation about whale meat consumption. Without dialog, it&#8217;s impossible to make any progress. It didn&#8217;t go too far with the native Japanese because most of them didn&#8217;t care or just thought it was plain kooky. They kept all the literature but certainly did nothing with it. Might be a little better these days, but obviously not enough to pressure the fishing industry to stop wholesale. Additionally, what I saw was not a lot of content knowledge about where their seafood came from, or how it was caught. Fresh and on my plate was what mattered most.

An episode of Iron Chef Japan is a prime example of how the Japanese generally view their seafood. Nothing quite as invigorating to the viewer than whacking a live Octopus, or hapless Sturgeon for a panel of coying media stooges.

On another note Norway has just upped it's quota too. Will it ever just stop?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4551258.stm