West Palm Beach Fatality 59 yo male diver

[OttoDog]

The agencies train people in solo diving, and while I don't like it, if the Agencies think it is safe and insurable, the charter boats will have to allow it.

I'm new, but doesn't a charter operator always have the last word on what they'll offer or accept?

 

[danvolker]

I'm new, but doesn't a charter operator always have the last word on what they'll offer or accept?

What..So you are saying they should not take ANY solo divers?

Or, if it turns out he had a heart attack, should each charter boat refuse anyone on statins, or that is overweight , or even just older than 60 years old..
How about personal responsibility.

 

[HowardE]

I'm new, but doesn't a charter operator always have the last word on what they'll offer or accept?

In the United States, and according to the US Coast Guard, "YES." The master of the vessel has the final say, and is responsible for the safety of his/her passengers.

 

[danvolker]

In the United States, and according to the US Coast Guard, "YES." The master of the vessel has the final say, and is responsible for the safety of his/her passengers.

Not the point..... The real issue here is whether or not a dive charter boat SHOULD decide a 60 year old passenger is too old to dive on their boat, or that anyone that is on a monthly prescription is not fit to dive with them, or that someone more than 20 pounds overweight should not be allowed to dive with them.

The issue is what we here on scubaboard feel as divers....Do we think the boat should play God about who is healthy and who is not...who was trained by the right agency, and who was not.....

 

[HowardE]

Not the point..... The real issue here is whether or not a dive charter boat SHOULD decide a 60 year old passenger is too old to dive on their boat, or that anyone that is on a monthly prescription is not fit to dive with them, or that someone more than 20 pounds overweight should not be allowed to dive with them.

The issue is what we here on scubaboard feel as divers....Do we think the boat should play God about who is healthy and who is not...who was trained by the right agency, and who was not.....

I was answering someone's post... not yours really... I wasn't involved in your issue.

But to answer your post. If the dive boat refuses service to someone, oh well. Post about it on SB, in whine and cheese.

The boat captain is the lord and master of their vessel. You can't demand they take you on the boat... can you?

So your issue is kind of moot... yes? Just an argument for the sake of one?

 

[danvolker]

I was answering someone's post... not yours really... I wasn't involved in your issue.

But to answer your post. If the dive boat refuses service to someone, oh well. Post about it on SB, in whine and cheese.

The boat captain is the lord and master of their vessel. You can't demand they take you on the boat... can you?

So your issue is kind of moot... yes? Just an argument for the sake of one?

Maybe you didn't read your way in to this thread Howard. A diver dies, and suddenly there is an outcry ( this thread) about how it had to be someone else's fault, that someone else should have known that they were ill or that they were too old or too whatever.

I disagree. If you spill hot coffee on yourself at MacDonalds and get burned, it is your fault, not theirs.
If you dive with a heart condition, this is on you, not the boat.

And in this specific thread, it is way early for any conjecture. When an autopsy is performed and the report released, and we know if it was medical -- or if it was skill level, or an accident....now is just the wrong time to do this.

 

[swampdawg]

Maybe you didn't read your way in to this thread Howard. A diver dies, and suddenly there is an outcry ( this thread) about how it had to be someone else's fault, that someone else should have known that they were ill or that they were too old or too whatever.

I disagree. If you spill hot coffee on yourself at MacDonalds and get burned, it is your fault, not theirs.
If you dive with a heart condition, this is on you, not the boat.

And in this specific thread, it is way early for any conjecture. When an autopsy is performed and the report released, and we know if it was medical -- or if it was skill level, or an accident....now is just the wrong time to do this.

Would you like for everyone to shut up,stop posting...and go away?

 

[flots am]

What..So you are saying they should not take ANY solo divers?

Or, if it turns out he had a heart attack, should each charter boat refuse anyone on statins, or that is overweight , or even just older than 60 years old..
How about personal responsibility.

"Perfectly healthy" people drop dead every day.

Maybe we should ban beds. I hear a lot of people die in them.

flots.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I heard some second hand info on the diver tonight. Apparently was found (on the bottom) 3 hours after he descended at a location which would indicate that he swam east some distance from the point where he was dropped.. Breakers reef in 50-60 feet..

He had ditched some lead and the BC inflator hose was disconnected. I got the impression he was diving with his son and a group and got separated on entry. Only caught a few pieces of info, not the whole story and no enough info to formulate even a rough picture of what happened.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I think Howard and Dan are looking at two sides of the same coin: right to refuse service to keep someone safe vs. responsibility to make sure no harm befalls the person. I think a better summary of the captain's right and responsibility might be:

"The captain of a vessel is responsible for taking care to provide reasonably safe conditions and to take steps to minimize imminent known hazards. For that reason, he or she has the ability to deny someone the right to enter their vessel or go on a dive. However, they are not able to gaurantee the safety of anyone and thus anyone using their vessel waives all right for them or anyone else to sue on their behalf, unless the captain recklessly endangered the life of the person. "

In other words, yes the captain needs to be able to tell someone they can't get on the boat, and also to keep the boat in pretty safe condition. However, when someone does get injured or dies, it should not mean they are able to sue the captain. Unless, that is, the captain recklessly or negligently harmed them. Heart attack? cant sue. Heart attack caused by the captain driving over them and missing them by an inch with the twin propellers because they didn't do a roll call, even though everyone on board told them "wait for Steve he's doing deco at the propellers!"? Sue them.

I think boats should allow people to dive in whatever number they feel like, but you shouldn't be able to sue the captain for it...