So this is interesting for me.
Are you saying that as long as we are in NDL we should bypass the safety stop if an emergency requires it ?
Well they didn't train us this way.
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So this is interesting for me.
Are you saying that as long as we are in NDL we should bypass the safety stop if an emergency requires it ?
You kind of answered your own question, when you say "if an emergency requires it." Requires equates to no other option.
But without getting into those semantics, there is no black and white answer, it depends on the nature of the emergency.
Safety stops and deep stops are usually considered "recommended" while deco stops are considered "required."
In the case of malfunctions and emergencies underwater, you need to be evaluating the various options open to you, and hopefully choosing the path with the least severe potential consequences. As an extreme example, if you are totally out of air and alone, skipping a safety stop is obviously your only option. A more grey area judgement call might be whether to do a safety stop off your buddy's octo when you are OOA or to do a direct ascent. I think one might argue either way on that, again depending on circumstances. (how deep for how long was I, how much air does my buddy have, how comfortable and experienced is my buddy, etc.)
The one solid piece of advice I would offer, is to not make a dangerous decision on this dive, in order to avoid having my computer lock me out of my next planned dive(s) due to a violation. That is probably where the distinction between recommended and required most applies.
Please, if there are two things you remember from this thread, remember these.
We can (generally) fix a bend, we can't fix drowning.
Its better to be on the boat wishing you where in the water, than in the water wishing you where on the boat.
As has been stated, a safety stop is an extra safe buffer. In an emergency you can blow through with no adverse effects (and even resume diving later in the day). Whilst I would never sanction ignoring compulsory decompression stops under normal circumstances, in an emergency it is possibly better to blow through them as well. The likelihood of a bend if you miss a minute or two is low. The real issue is when you have a significant amount of compulsory stops accrued. Then its a matter of measuring the risks.
For the purists, I know blowing off 60 minutes off stops negates number 1. But we are really talking about recreational diving where the required decompression stops are small or negligible.
We can (generally) fix a bend, we can't fix drowning.
Its better to be on the boat wishing you where in the water, than in the water wishing you where on the boat.
As has been stated, a safety stop is an extra safe buffer. In an emergency you can blow through with no adverse effects (and even resume diving later in the day). Whilst I would never sanction ignoring compulsory decompression stops under normal circumstances, in an emergency it is possibly better to blow through them as well. The likelihood of a bend if you miss a minute or two is low. The real issue is when you have a significant amount of compulsory stops accrued. Then its a matter of measuring the risks.
For the purists, I know blowing off 60 minutes off stops negates number 1. But we are really talking about recreational diving where the required decompression stops are small or negligible.
You answered my question. I think although it is probably covered in PADI material they do not stress enough what is really dangerous from what is not for emergencies.
Maybe this is better covered for rescue divers ?
I think most people understand that drowning can lead to undesirable death, so when you have to ‘save’ yourself, it is obvious that it is better to go through the stop than die
What was unclear to me is how to determine how much I can risk by helping my buddy and going through the safety stops. Now you have answered this very clearly: as long as you are in NDL (which I should be at my level of diving), it is okish to go through a stop to help a buddy if there is an emergency.
I am sure that if I re-read my material it must be written. But I don’t think it is written in a clear enough way or wasn’t stressed enough.
Thanks.
Actually, it is covered in PADI Open Water Diver, but it is probably not emphasized via tests, quizzes, etc.You answered my question. I think although it is probably covered in PADI material they do not stress enough what is really dangerous from what is not for emergencies.
Maybe this is better covered for rescue divers ?
I think most people understand that drowning can lead to undesirable death, so when you have to ‘save’ yourself, it is obvious that it is better to go through the stop than die
What was unclear to me is how to determine how much I can risk by helping my buddy and going through the safety stops. Now you have answered this very clearly: as long as you are in NDL (which I should be at my level of diving), it is okish to go through a stop to help a buddy if there is an emergency.
Thanks.
Page 199: "Recall that some problems, such as an out-of-air situation, may call for omitting the stop to reach the surface quickly. In such instances, it is more important to reach the surface safely than to make the safety stop."
Most important is probably to learn concepts and practice how to think/evaluate/problem solve, than to learn a set of specific rules by rote and only apply them to a narrow set of specific scenarios.
I am also reminded how sometimes common sense becomes obvious when just looked at from the right point of view. When we teach CPR, we learn that many folks are hesitant to provide meaningful chest compressions due to fear of hurting the victim. But then you ask that rescuer to weigh a victim's possible broken ribs against their possible death...
For me it wasn’t really about common sense. It was just about knowing that I don’t risk DCS so much on a recreational dive so I can help someone else at low risk for myself. It may sound selfish but I have limits to what I will risk to help others.
I must have forgotten some of the material. Please note that the part you quote does not mention about how much you’ll risk for helping your buddy when you skip the stop, which is a different situation than being OOA yourself.
I agree with understanding but I disagree with not having a set of rules, that’s possibly because you have over 25x more dives than me so your experience and knowledge allows you to be able to cover more scenarios. I think rules should be taught and explained so people can understand why such rule was set in place. When you have little experience you need to rely on rules at first. Many of us don’t dive frequently enough to not have rules.
I just came to a BSAC sports diver class and actually asked a fairly similar question, I am pretty sure from the looks of people that nobody knew the answer in the students. Most of people do not ask questions probably because they are scared of looking ignorant.
Maybe, there is no emphasis on this because PADI does not want people to violate stops because they were not ‘mandatory’ ?
Well, I didn't mean there doesn't need to be a set of rules, just that it is very difficult to provide a set that covers every possible scenario in detail. You are certainly on the right track - thinking it through, asking questions, and continuing to learn. I applaud you. (I think in this activity, we ALL continue to learn, as long as we are open to it.)
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