Well they didn't train us this way.

[JackD342]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the replies, I have learned quite a bit already from this thread, and appreciate the feedback. I in no way shape or form felt like people were attacking me or deliberately pointing out what I had did wrong. In fact this board seems to be really good about not attacking the poster, that is the reason I posted it. I knew someone would come along with good advise. Going back through to answer some of your questions: He was diving a AL titian for a 2nd stage, not sure what he had on the 1st stage other that some AL. He didn't freeze the 1st stage, as it was only his primary that was free flowing, his octo was fine. Coms / hand signals were already agreed upon, again I had dived with him on 5 other dives (over the course of a few months). Do I wish things had gone differently, sure. But then again, I look at it as a learning experience and will adapt my setup to better prepared should this happen again.

Titan is not cold water ready. Saw one freeze in 30ft of water, 45 degrees, within 5 minutes. However, Titan LX Supreme (replaced by Core Supreme) is intended for cold water. Under 50 degrees F is the general threshold. Scubalabs has a good article on the Physics involved.
Why Scuba Diving Regulators Freeze
For a deeper dive into details, use the link at the end of that article.

 

[BRT]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the replies, I have learned quite a bit already from this thread, and appreciate the feedback. I in no way shape or form felt like people were attacking me or deliberately pointing out what I had did wrong. In fact this board seems to be really good about not attacking the poster, that is the reason I posted it. I knew someone would come along with good advise. Going back through to answer some of your questions: He was diving a AL titian for a 2nd stage, not sure what he had on the 1st stage other that some AL. He didn't freeze the 1st stage, as it was only his primary that was free flowing, his octo was fine. Coms / hand signals were already agreed upon, again I had dived with him on 5 other dives (over the course of a few months). Do I wish things had gone differently, sure. But then again, I look at it as a learning experience and will adapt my setup to better prepared should this happen again.

Only the primary free flowing does not mean the first stage was regulating correctly. Something always gives first. Also does not mean the first stage was not working correctly.

 

[JackD342]

Only the primary free flowing does not mean the first stage was regulating correctly. Something always gives first. Also does not mean the first stage was not working correctly.

There are different generations, but from what I know of the Titan design, the 1st stage probably delivered colder IP than a cold water design would, and then the 2nd stage chilled it further to freeze. Probably started with a wet interior on the primary, too. Aqualung specs for CW versions also lower the IP versus other versions.

 

[JackD342]

I guess that's a matter of why you are having the free flow.

Doesn't 200 bar exceed the burst pressure of most LP scuba hoses? I can't find the burst pressure for miflex, but my regular rubber hoses are stamped 27 bar. If your first stage wasn't regulating the pressure at all, I don't think it would matter if you could kink the LP hose or not. If you did, it should blow out the hose straight away.

There isn’t just one Miflex pressure, there are both LP and HP. All braided HP hoses I have seen are very thin - think current Suunto hoses.
One side note: I have a friend with an out of air example where a long rubber HP hose helped. That holds some extra pressure and volume in the system that can supply a few more breaths. I hadn’t ever thought of that, but makes sense to me, I think...

 

[2airishuman]

Based on the information provided, it's impossible to tell whether the problem was a first stage or second stage freeflow.

I believe that all vintages of Titan have diaphragm first stages. I am skeptical that there is much variation in cold-water performance between "sealed" and conventional diaphragm regulators. Conventional diaphragm regulators are themselves pretty well sealed except for the main spring. In most designs the main spring is relatively far removed from the HP valve seat making it relatively isolated from the adiabatic cooling of the expanding gas.

The early "titan" is much the same as a conshelf, which has about an inch of brass between the seat and the diaphragm. The spring is futher away yet. Perhaps the OP can tell us what vintage of Titan was in use.

 

[JackD342]

Takes more than one stage to make a cold water system. For at least the last few Titan generations, the 2nd stage has had very little metal for heat exchange.
To my surprise, the current Calypso is cold water, having met the EU EN250A standards. That is an unbalanced piston, with the same 2nd stage as the current Titan that has NOT met those standards. I am stunned by that Calypso, a system with no specific CW design features, but passing EU testing is a compelling point.

 

[Landlocked123]

in my opinion safe seconds are not good. To your point very difficult to breathe out of one and very limited on options during a stressful situation. I would never dive with that person again.

 

[EireDiver606]

Glad you’re alright. Good you were ready to donate. Don’t dive with him again.

Haven’t read thread but how long were you at depth and what was total dive time?

 

[unwantedsn]

4mins at depth, total time was 13mins

 

[johndiver999]

You don't need a safety stop for a 4 minute dive to 80 feet. If the guy came back down and had no air and wanted to do a stop and we had any trouble holding a steady depth, then I would ascend right away and inflate his BC on the surface.

Bobbing around on a safety stop with someone who has zero air and who is nervous and unskilled is not my idea of safety. The computer complaining has ZERO weight for me. Get to the surface ASAP (safely), establish positive buoyancy for the "victim" and then think about swimming in.