We all started out as O/W students

[The Chairman]

... "dude" has been an active part of my vocabulary since about 1965 ...

As in that runaway comedy: "Dude, Where's My Fin?"

 

[boulderjohn]

... "dude" has been an active part of my vocabulary since about 1965 ... along with its variants, "dewd", "dood", and "duuuuuuuuude" ...

As in that runaway comedy: "Dude, Where's My Fin?"

I just heard a clip from a comedian that was part of a pretty funny bit. He started off with a question: "I wonder what the most intelligent sentence ever is that started with the word 'Dude'?"

EDIT: I found it. It is by Demetri Martin:

I wonder what the most intelligent thing ever said was that started with the word: dude. Dude, these are isotopes? Dude, we removed your kidney. You're gonna be fine. Dude, I am so stoked to win this Nobel Prize.

 

[Crush]

I can think of two legitimate reasons to bring up someone's lack of experience in a conversation ...

While I see your point, I would contend that an argument can be discredited without appealing to someone's dive history. For example, Dr. Deco (who I assume is not a diver) [EDIT: I am incorrect - Dr. Deco is a certified diver. Thanks BoulderJohn.] or anyone else for that matter can point out the errors in someone's comments on DCS by citing peer-reviewed scientific publications without any reference to a diver's level of experience (or lack thereof). If you are wrong you are wrong, regardless of your dive history.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

While I see your point, I would contend that an argument can be discredited without appealing to someone's dive history. For example, Dr. Deco (who I assume is not a diver) or anyone else for that matter can point out the errors in someone's comments on DCS by citing peer-reviewed scientific publications without any reference to a diver's level of experience (or lack thereof). If you are wrong you are wrong, regardless of your dive history.

... so much about diving isn't about being right or wrong ... it's about applying what you know in the context of what you're attempting to do with it.

Differences in environment, profiles, goals, training, and personal objectives will determine whether a specific solution is beneficial, harmful, optimal, or even sufficient to the objectives of the diver.

Much of this is only learned by doing ... because the meaning of something you learn in class changes as you apply it to different situations. This is what I meant by an "aha" moment ... when something you thought you knew takes on whole new layers of meaning. What you knew previously is still, technically, correct ... it's just not the whole picture.

In this respect, experience does make a difference.

Whether it matters or not is a different consideration ... and often a very subjective one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[knowone]

The point is no one is interested in discrediting anyone.

Certainly not someone that cites personal experience when discussing deco.




It is the words that are being challenged. Not the person nor the profile.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The point is no one is interested in discrediting anyone.

Certainly not someone that cites personal experience when discussing deco.

Perfect example ... there are no definitive answers ... it's more a matter of selecting a model as a starting point, and "fine tuning" it based on how you feel after the dive.

Someone with limited experience can talk very informatively about the theory, but as Ross Hemingway so famously put it ... "we're all lab rats" ... and only the rat can describe how it feels ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[knowone]

"Dude" is a sentence.

 

[Crush]

I would like to re-state my earlier opinion to the OP.

When someone's only response to your position is a criticism of your lack of diving experience and that person can come up with no other attack of your position it almost invariably means that you beat that person intellectually, and they are now resorting to a sort of appeal to authority.

Point of clarification - drawing upon a lack (or abundance) of dive experience is not always incorrect (or correct), nor is the person arguing with you necessarily wrong (or right). To wit, an experienced diver with over 1000 deco dives, trained in the early days of decompression theory and training, may have executed a thousand deco dives using a theory which is dated and deemed dangerous when compared to modern accepted models, yet that diver may have suffered no ill effects. This is evidence which is true and verifiable, but it would be incorrect to deduce from it that said diver's profiles are safe for anyone. Should this one diver state that their profile is perfectly safe for you to use, said diver's anecdotal experience may prove to be dangerous to you if you follow it. Summary: verifiable and true evidence cannot be generalized from an insufficient amount of evidence. It would be much better, if in doubt, to ask a dive medicine specialist where evidence is based upon large-sample studies.

I am not saying that experienced divers are frequently wrong. However, I am saying that you might be right.

 

[boulderjohn]

For example, Dr. Deco (who I assume is not a diver) ....

Just for clarification, he is a certified but infrequent OW diver.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I would like to re-state my earlier opinion to the OP.

When someone's only response to your position is a criticism of your lack of diving experience and that person can come up with no other attack of your position it almost invariably means that you beat that person intellectually, and they are now resorting to a sort of appeal to authority.

Point of clarification - drawing upon a lack (or abundance) of dive experience is not always incorrect (or correct), nor is the person arguing with you necessarily wrong (or right). To wit, an experienced diver with over 1000 deco dives, trained in the early days of decompression theory and training, may have executed a thousand deco dives using a theory which is dated and deemed dangerous when compared to modern accepted models, yet that diver may have suffered no ill effects. This is evidence which is true and verifiable, but it would be incorrect to deduce from it that said diver's profiles are safe for anyone. Should this one diver state that their profile is perfectly safe for you to use, said diver's anecdotal experience may prove to be dangerous to you if you follow it. Summary: verifiable and true evidence cannot be generalized from an insufficient amount of evidence. It would be much better, if in doubt, to ask a dive medicine specialist where evidence is based upon large-sample studies.

I am not saying that experienced divers are frequently wrong. However, I am saying that you might be right.

... or, as Billy Joel would put it ...

You may be right
I may be crazy
But it just might be a lunatic you're looking for
Turn out the light
Don't try to save me
You may be wrong for all I know
But you may be right



... Bob (Grateful Diver)