Watson Murder Case - Discussion

[K_girl]

I read in one article where King said in an interview that he could charge the case with Capital Murder because Watson pleaded to a different crime. so in this case, it appears that King is using that charge differently.

I can see if I can find the link if needed where he said that.

Actually King's office said that Double Jeopardy didn't apply here.

he said: (from Alabama to Seek Murder Charge Against Man in Wife's Australian Honeymoon Drowning - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com)

An attorney for Watson, Bob Austin, said the U.S. Constitution bars trying someone twice for the same crime. States can prosecute people for crimes committed outside the United States only if a foreign country refuses to bring charges, he said.

"That's not what happened here," he said. King, Austin said "can say whatever he wants."​

King aide Chris Bence said there was no "international standard" on double jeopardy, or prosecuting someone twice for the same offense, and Watson didn't plead guilty to murder.

In the end - Alabama prosecutors will have to fight a double jeopardy motion and argument which will no doubt be put forth by the defense. In your quote, they are just firmly saying what their argument will be. The double jeopardy argument will have to be adjudicated, it will not disappear as an issue just because the prosecutors have an argument. Mark my words, there will be a hearing on the double jeopardy issue. Here is what Valeska said:

"We would definitely arrest him when he gets back but whether two countries can charge someone over the same murder remains to be seen," Mr Valeska said.

"A judge here may turn around and say that he can't be put in jeopardy for the same crime twice."

Source: Dad unable to win justice for Tina Watson, bride of Gabe Watson

 

[K_girl]

CDNN reporting re: Watson case. Here is an excerpt from their report the day after Tina died:

"Gabe Watson was pulled unconscious from the water late Wednesday morning and survived. Efforts to revive his wife failed.."

CDNN :: Mike Ball Spoil Sport Guest Died On Her Honeymoon - Source quoted as "Townsville Bulletin."

Other articles show that Watson was talking to the press just days after the incident and Gabe Watson is quoted directly:

http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031/s031031.html - Source quoted as "Rueters"

"TOWNSVILLE, Australia (24 Apr 2006) -- According to attorney Bob Austin Gabe Watson nearly drowned himself trying to save his bride of 11-days during their tragic honeymoon in Australia in October 2003..

Austin goes on to says that Gabe Watson was blind and without air forcing him to surface and call for help as Christina Watson was whisked away in a heavy current.."

Source: http://www.cdnn.info/news/safety/s060424.html - Source quoted as "Wait"

Excuse me, but how can this possibly be true when Watson told investigators he got control of his mask and reg and then tried to kick down for Tina but she was sinking too fast? hmmm.. telling his attorney one thing and telling investigators another? Sound familiar? Anyone bother to tell Watson's attorney that if he was blind and without air all the way to the surface - he probably would have drowned coming up from 50 feet?

If Alabama prosecutors do indeed pursue this case, they need to find out who talked to Watson and figure out if Watson was the source for this statement in the report - and they need to subpoena the reporter's notes.

So - on a side point, CDNN is supposed to be the bad tabloid of diving news. Anyone have an example where they quoted another source for their story, but it turned out to be false?

 

[K_girl]

Just as I said as soon as it was announced - dumb move on the part of Alabama prosecutors to go for the death penalty for Watson - as Australia may grant him asylum.

"A spokesman for the Australian Attorney-General's Department said a possible death sentence could prevent Watson's extradition - if US authorities applied for it."

'The Extradition Act prevents a minister from surrendering a person to be prosecuted for an offence which carries the death penalty unless the requesting country gives Australia an undertaking that the death penalty will not be imposed or if imposed will not be carried out,' the spokesman said. "

Source: http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Nat...ymoon_killer_may_face_death_in_US_374541.html

So here is another interesting potential outcome. One of the reasons for the reduction of the 4-1/2 year sentence to 18 months was because it would be a hardship for Watson to not have family around. So, if they grant him asylum and he never returns "home" to his family - would that change his sentence to cause him to serve more time since Australia would be his new "home"?

 

[mike_s]

CDNN reporting re: Watson case. Here is an excerpt from their report the day after Tina died:

"Gabe Watson was pulled unconscious from the water late Wednesday morning and survived. Efforts to revive his wife failed.."

CDNN :: Mike Ball Spoil Sport Guest Died On Her Honeymoon - Source quoted as "Townsville Bulletin."

I wouldn't trust any article that comes out on CDNN.

Interviews with people on the boat said he was conscious when he returned to the boat. (this from the 48 hours/60 minutes/etc or what ever it was interview a year or so ago. They talked about how he acted when he returned to the boat. )

So - on a side point, CDNN is supposed to be the bad tabloid of diving news. Anyone have an example where they quoted another source for their story, but it turned out to be false?

I don't have a direct reference, but there are several instances where CDNN has printed less than true facts in their stories.

 

[mike_s]

In the end - Alabama prosecutors will have to fight a double jeopardy motion and argument which will no doubt be put forth by the defense. In your quote, they are just firmly saying what their argument will be. The double jeopardy argument will have to be adjudicated, it will not disappear as an issue just because the prosecutors have an argument. Mark my words, there will be a hearing on the double jeopardy issue. Here is what Valeska said:

"We would definitely arrest him when he gets back but whether two countries can charge someone over the same murder remains to be seen," Mr Valeska said.

"A judge here may turn around and say that he can't be put in jeopardy for the same crime twice."

Source: Dad unable to win justice for Tina Watson, bride of Gabe Watson

well if anyone can screw this up, it's Don Valeska.

Valeska has been caught by judges lying in court and withholding evidence. I'm surprised he hasn't been disbarred.

 

[K_girl]

CDNN reporting re: Watson case. Here is an excerpt from their report the day after Tina died:

"Gabe Watson was pulled unconscious from the water late Wednesday morning and survived. Efforts to revive his wife failed.."

CDNN :: Mike Ball Spoil Sport Guest Died On Her Honeymoon - Source quoted as "Townsville Bulletin."

Other articles show that Watson was talking to the press just days after the incident and Gabe Watson is quoted directly:

CDNN :: Mike Ball Manager Denies Negligence in Spoil Sport Death - Source quoted as "Rueters"

"TOWNSVILLE, Australia (24 Apr 2006) -- According to attorney Bob Austin Gabe Watson nearly drowned himself trying to save his bride of 11-days during their tragic honeymoon in Australia in October 2003..

Austin goes on to says that Gabe Watson was blind and without air forcing him to surface and call for help as Christina Watson was whisked away in a heavy current.."

Source: CDNN :: Attorney Blames Mike Ball Dive Expeditions for Honeymooner's Scuba Diving Death - Source quoted as "Wait"

Excuse me, but how can this possibly be true when Watson told investigators he got control of his mask and reg and then tried to kick down for Tina but she was sinking too fast? hmmm.. telling his attorney one thing and telling investigators another? Sound familiar? Anyone bother to tell Watson's attorney that if he was blind and without air all the way to the surface - he probably would have drowned coming up from 50 feet?

If Alabama prosecutors do indeed pursue this case, they need to find out who talked to Watson and figure out if Watson was the source for this statement in the report - and they need to subpoena the reporter's notes.

So - on a side point, CDNN is supposed to be the bad tabloid of diving news. Anyone have an example where they quoted another source for their story, but it turned out to be false?

I was able to confirm these stories on Lexis/Nexis. It would appear that Danny Mortison from Townsville Bulletin was the reporter who spoke with Watson. So, even if CDNN is a sleezebag rag, it would appear that they quoted these particular stories word-for-word and are the only public resource who have retained these stories.

 

[ItsBruce]

I don't have the time to research double jeopardy right now. However, my gut tells me that while he might be tried in the US for a crime for which he was acquitted in another country, it cannot try him for a crime for which he served a sentence. Apart from double jeopardy issues, I see a whole host of cruel-and-unusual-penalty issues. ... Even though he maintains his innocence, he pleads guilty to manslaughter and serves time in prison to avoid the risk of being found guilty of murder, and then as soon as he is released, he is charged with murder and a key piece of evidence is his guilty plea to the manslaughter charge. And, if I were an appellate justice considering the matter, I'd certainly consider the public policy implications as follows

Like it or not, plea bargains are an essential part of the criminal justice system. Given (1) the number of crimes for which people are charged, (2) a jury trial is a matter of right in anything greater than a traffic ticket and (3) the Constitution guarantees a speedy public trial; there are not enough courts, judges, jurors or prosecutors to try them all. Incidentally, case which is not brought to trial within the requisite time MUST be dismissed unless the defendant waives time. Thus, without plea bargains, the whole system would grind to a halt and the courts will have no choice but to simply dismiss cases that can't be brought to trial in the requisite time.

Now, how many people will plead guilty to a lesser crime if, after they serve their sentence, they can be tried for the same crime in another state (that asserts it was somehow impacted by the crime)? How about if their plea can be used as evidence in that subsequent case?

I think that the appellate courts will look at the realities and say no second trial.

And, for anyone who doubts the importance of public policy consider:

1. There is an absolute privilege for confidential communications between a clergyman and a parishioner. Since Confession is a religious ceremony, to permit, let alone require, a clergyman to disclose a confidential communication by a parishioner would interfere with the free exercise of religion. Thus, the law makes such communications absolutely privileged.

2. There is an absolute privilege for confidential communications between a lawyer and a client. Even a confession is privileged. The law basically says that to function, clients must be able to share everything with their lawyers and to receive their lawyers' honest assessments. Thus, even if it means that the truth is hidden, the law makes the communication inviolate.

3. In a civil proceeding, the law says that evidence he defendant took remedial measures after the fact to prevent a similar incident is not admissible to show there was something wrong at the time of the incident. Clearly subsequent remedial measures are relevant to show something needed fixing. However, the law wants to encourage people to fix things that are dangerous, and it figures that if evidence of repairs can come back to haunt the defendant, no one will perform repairs after someone else is injured. Thus, the law it makes such evidence inadmissible.

There are lots of other examples and I suspect that an appellate court will invoke double jeopardy or cruel-and-unusual to protect the plea bargain system.

Just my $0.02.

 

[My-way]

I am mostly in the "not" category, but in fact nothing he says is inconsistent with the proposition I advanced...it is only so as between the accused and the Crown (well, there might be an interesting question about the divisibility of the Crown...but that's for a journal!)

I have to say I am in the "like" category most, but not all, of the time and the innocence part in terms of a criminal prosecution between Crown and subject innocence as between Crown and subject is all that is relevant. Private reservations are irrelevant, they are for ventilation in wrongful death suits.

 

[Tom Smedley]

I have heard a rumor that someone read in the Birmingham News that the Alabama Attorney General is looking to press charges in Alabama. We need lots of popcorn to watch this unfurl.

 

[mike_s]

I have heard a rumor that someone read in the Birmingham News that the Alabama Attorney General is looking to press charges in Alabama. We need lots of popcorn to watch this unfurl.

you're rumor is right. read back and there is a link referencing it to AL.com (which the B'ham news website is on).

Attorney General Troy King intended to press charges against him. Don Valeska that we were talking about is the Assistant state attorney general that is his 'whipping boy'.