Watson Murder Case - Discussion

[Foxfish]

An expert could have opined that from a diving perspective things could not have happened as Watson said, but I don't think anyone really thought Watsono was right about that anyway. It is likely, his version did not make him look so bad in failing to save Tina after things started going sideways due to his bad choices. (IMHO bad choices started with Tina taking diving lessons to please Watson.)

I'd be interested to know what parts of Gabe's version of events the moment Tina drowned you or others thought were wrong.

Right from the time Gabe got out of the water and told people what happened people told him his story was wrong. Snyder was a case in point. Apparently Gabe told Snyder he tried to raise Tina but was unable because of her weight. Snyder claimed this was wrong because you are weightless underwater. It is not hard to refute that claim. Gabe told Snyder that Tina had panicked and in the process knocked his mask and the regulator out of his mouth and then stated to sink with her arms outstretched with no movement. Snyder responded " You cannot be in a full blown panic underwater and then all of a sudden serenely start sinking with your hands outstretched looking at someone." I've discussed this in more detail in post 1670. To me there is a good explanation for what Gabe observed.

 

[thespoons]

Unless the judge's ruling is overturned on appeal, the state can't charge him again.

Is that possible, though? From my law degree from The University of Google, it seem as though this is the end for criminal proceedings:
When Double Jeopardy Protection Ends - FindLaw

Unless they somehow try federal "civil rights violation" (incredibly unlikely, given the lack of evidence). I missed this whole trial when it went on in Australia. I found it fascinating when it hit the news because so many things were similar to my own experience. My wife and I went on honeymoon aboard Spirit of Freedom to the GBR. We were both inexperienced divers, having only checkout dives as part of our certification. And those were freshwater dives in a placid (though frigid) lake. I'm even from Alabama, too!

We probably could have bluffed our way through, pretending like we were able to handle more than we could. But we went the opposite direction. For all of the first day or so of dives, we asked to go down with one of the crew. We even did that on many of our other dives as well. We weren't looking to prove anything, just to have an enjoyable and most importantly SAFE experience. I can see how the temptation would be there to do otherwise, especially when you really wanted to dive and your buddy was even much less experienced than you and leery. Sometimes the desire for a dive can be a little obsessive.

On our next trip, we dove in Bonaire. Even then, we take it easy and don't try to push the limits of even what our OW certification says we're allowed to do. We just try to have fun and enjoy ourselves. Okay, enough back-patting. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

See post 1775 above. Too many people have bought in to the trial by media, trial by angry bereaved family and the "Give him a fair trial then hang him" mentality. The Judge did his job! He considered the evidence, disallowed information that was not appropriate then made a ruling according to His Duty! The half truths, intentional and unintentional misleading information have been so badly twisted that Truth has become the greatest victim.

TWO COURTS have decided the man is not guilty of deliberately murdering his wife because the EVIDENCE BEFORE THOSE COURTS (not the evidence as it has been doctored by others with their own agendas) DID NOT SUPPORT a FINDING of GUILTY of MURDER!

Here is an interesting fact. Gabe WATSON is NOT Guilty of Murder until a legally conducted court declares him so. Two courts failed to be able to justify that finding so HE is a FREE man because he not Guilty therefor innocent of the charges.

Lets all stop and think for a moment.. put ourselves in his shoes. He overestimated his skill (many people do). He didn't handle the situation well when the "ship hit the sand". He surfaces to get help (remember rescue 101 to become a second victim). He confides in someone who claims to be "Expert" and they pick him apart with misinformation. The man is reeling from what just happened and his wife is on another boat being worked on. Someone else tells you that what he just experienced couldn't have happened. You know they are experienced divers and you start doubting yourself. You can't face watching the people work on your wife so you hold back and second guess yourself for that. Then the interviews and media twist everything you say. Then the family that never really liked you launches a campaign. You are innocent and get angry about how this is all playing out and do some stupid things. This Hell goes on and on but you dare not say anything to defend yourself.. nor can your family. You go through 8 years of this.. finally are vidicated but the lynch mob wont go away. The stain on your name and reputation will not go away.

How much more punishment does he deserve? Yep he failed to measure up to the hero status most people think they would display. He will always live with that but think for a minute how it would feel to be him? I say he has paid enough. Consider this... if he is such a vile terrible person.. how on earth did he find someone who knew the whole story and still fell in love with him and married him in spite of all this. Don't you think that has to say something about his character and that maybe he isn't as bad as the campaigners saw him?

Sorry but I am getting tired of biting my tongue and trying to use reason to encourage people to consider both sides. Both have suffered. I don't doubt both are commited to their positions isn't it time to let them heal now? Rant over! :doh:

 

[Divedoggie]

Applying lessons learned:

I teach 6 university diving classes a week, and part of the discussion in those classes has been about the Honeymoon Killer case. We have looked at the importance of knowledge, proper training, skill and becoming self reliant and self sufficient, before being able to be an equal member of a buddy team.

I just finished Friday's final pool session and am bringing a large group to our OW site tomorrow. One student in today's class was able to accomplish all of her skills per the standards, but twice during the pool session, she started to panic and bolt. She even tried to fight me as I responded to her underwater. We had a very quiet and mellow conversation on the surface and then went back under and successfully completed her skills.

This student is very intelligent, mature and accomplished in her everyday life. She is familiar with the Watson case, and yet was overwhelmed with anxiety and would have certainly dislodged my mask and regulator had I not been prepared and well positioned.

When we debriefed at the end of the session, I told her that she did an excellent job today, especially overcoming fears and completing the requirements. However, we both agreed that she was able to accomplish everything, because I was there making sure that she was ok.
We agreed that she would need to do an additional pool session and work on the skills until they became boring, but also second nature. She would need to be comfortable without me or any other buddy taking care of her. She signed up for the course on her own, only to please and to challenge herself.

She will not do the Open Water dives until we both think she is ready, even though she met the minimum standards. That is $ out of my pocket, but sleeping better at night is priceless.

 

[Ayisha]

Divedoggie, you show a lot of empathy and patience regarding your students, which is, unfortunately, in short supply today. I'm sure it does not go unnoticed and is very much appreciated. Keep up the good work!

 

[~zeroed~]

See post 1775 above. Too many people have bought in to the trial by media, trial by angry bereaved family and the "Give him a fair trial then hang him" mentality. The Judge did his job! He considered the evidence, disallowed information that was not appropriate then made a ruling according to His Duty! The half truths, intentional and unintentional misleading information have been so badly twisted that Truth has become the greatest victim.

TWO COURTS have decided the man is not guilty of deliberately murdering his wife because the EVIDENCE BEFORE THOSE COURTS (not the evidence as it has been doctored by others with their own agendas) DID NOT SUPPORT a FINDING of GUILTY of MURDER!

Here is an interesting fact. Gabe WATSON is NOT Guilty of Murder until a legally conducted court declares him so. Two courts failed to be able to justify that finding so HE is a FREE man because he not Guilty therefor innocent of the charges.

Lets all stop and think for a moment.. put ourselves in his shoes. He overestimated his skill (many people do). He didn't handle the situation well when the "ship hit the sand". He surfaces to get help (remember rescue 101 to become a second victim). He confides in someone who claims to be "Expert" and they pick him apart with misinformation. The man is reeling from what just happened and his wife is on another boat being worked on. Someone else tells you that what he just experienced couldn't have happened. You know they are experienced divers and you start doubting yourself. You can't face watching the people work on your wife so you hold back and second guess yourself for that. Then the interviews and media twist everything you say. Then the family that never really liked your launches a campaign. You are innocent and get angry about how this is all playing out and do some stupid things. This Hell goes on and on but you dare not say anything to defend yourself.. nor can your family. You go through 8 years of this.. finally are vidicated but the lynch mob wont go away. The stain on your name and reputation will not go away.

How much more punishment does he deserve? Yep he failed to measure up to the hero status most people think they would display. He will always live with that but think for a minute how it would feel to be him? I say he has paid enough. Consider this... if he is such a vile terrible person.. how on earth did he find someone who knew the whole story and still fell in love with him and married him in spite of all this. Don't you think that has to say something about his character and that maybe he isn't as bad as the campaigners saw him?

Sorry but I am getting tired of biting my tongue and trying to use reason to encourage people to consider both sides. Both have suffered. I don't doubt both are commited to their positions isn't it time to let them heal now? Rant over! :doh:

I absolutely agree with you.


Isn't it time then to stop picking this case apart? It's over, learn from it, but like you said, time to let the healing begin.

 

[Foxfish]

TWO COURTS have decided the man is not guilty of deliberately murdering his wife because the EVIDENCE BEFORE THOSE COURTS (not the evidence as it has been doctored by others with their own agendas) DID NOT SUPPORT a FINDING of GUILTY of MURDER!

I know how you feel. I recently read comments on a local news blog and many reflected the lynch mob mentality. This was after Gabe was acquitted.

Based on what I've read to date, I believe that what happened underwater in those final moments were pretty much as Gabe said. Tina got into trouble. He tried to help but found he couldn't. He decided after losing his mask and regulator that he needed help so he went to get it.

We don't really know for sure what happened. This trial didn't prove that Gabe didn't murder Tina, just that there was not sufficient evidence to find him guilty of the crime many believe he committed. It is not fair to convict people of murder based on hearsay and innuendo.

 

[Foxfish]

Applying lessons learned: We agreed that she would need to do an additional pool session and work on the skills until they became boring, but also second nature. She would need to be comfortable without me or any other buddy taking care of her. She signed up for the course on her own, only to please and to challenge herself.

She will not do the Open Water dives until we both think she is ready, even though she met the minimum standards. That is $ out of my pocket, but sleeping better at night is priceless.

When I did my open water course I'd been freediving/spearfishing regularly for many years under all kinds of conditions out in the ocean. The course was done at the local beach where the visibility was a couple of metres at best. I was kind of surprised that people would even bother diving in those conditions after some of the beautiful diving I'd done on other reefs. I also found the course boring except for the last day when we did a couple of boat dives around one of the local islands.

We had another Asian girl in the course. She could hardly swim and couldn't fin. The dive instructor spent much of his time helping her. I saw her panic several times and head for the surface.

Two people with very different backgrounds doing the same course. It could be argued that the course needed to spend more time on basic skills to help those like the Asian girl. Trouble is then some would have found it even more tedious and boring. Getting the happy balance is not easy.

I don't see why having to spend more time improving people's basic skills should be done at the instructor's cost. I'm not an instructor by the way. One suggestion for the people who lack experience would be a supervised preliminary course that covered basic swimming, snorkeling and duck diving - at their cost. That would also give them a chance to become more comfortable in the water.

Down at my local pool I've been watching a class of children on occasions doing this kind of thing. They have improved greatly over the weeks. It puts them in great shape to start scuba diving if they chose.

Anyone can do this themselves if they have the determination. I believe that you can overcome fear about the water just by becoming very familiar with your surroundings. It's not just the strangeness of the scuba gear and the feeling of being immersed. It is the whole underwater world. Things look very different above and below the water. Looking out into the unknown when the visibility is poor can be daunting for newcomers. Find some areas where there is a bit of current and swell and try snorkeling in those areas.

 

[alohagal]

Yes...some of the salacious news reporting here on television still misidentifies GABE as the diver in the foreground of the infamous photo of Tina lying on the bottom. Heard it again on news(gossip)reporting yesterday. They had Tina's cousin discussing very old talking points about Gabe and what he did. The family, is truly convinced that Gabe is guilty of murder.

 

[alohagal]

Is that possible, though? From my law degree from The University of Google, it seem as though this is the end for criminal proceedings:
When Double Jeopardy Protection Ends - FindLaw

Unless they somehow try federal "civil rights violation" (incredibly unlikely, given the lack of evidence). I missed this whole trial when it went on in Australia. I found it fascinating when it hit the news because so many things were similar to my own experience. My wife and I went on honeymoon aboard Spirit of Freedom to the GBR. We were both inexperienced divers, having only checkout dives as part of our certification. And those were freshwater dives in a placid (though frigid) lake. I'm even from Alabama, too!

We probably could have bluffed our way through, pretending like we were able to handle more than we could. But we went the opposite direction. For all of the first day or so of dives, we asked to go down with one of the crew. We even did that on many of our other dives as well. We weren't looking to prove anything, just to have an enjoyable and most importantly SAFE experience. I can see how the temptation would be there to do otherwise, especially when you really wanted to dive and your buddy was even much less experienced than you and leery. Sometimes the desire for a dive can be a little obsessive.

On our next trip, we dove in Bonaire. Even then, we take it easy and don't try to push the limits of even what our OW certification says we're allowed to do. We just try to have fun and enjoy ourselves. Okay, enough back-patting. Just wanted to throw that out there.

There was no trial in Australia. Gabe pleaded guilty to manslaughter. Also, there is no appeal in the US. Criminal case is completely over. However, the family does have the option to file for a civil trial because he was acquitted in the criminal trial. Just like the OJ fiasco.