Watson Murder Case - Discussion

[Foxfish]

Following my eureka moment after discovering Divedoggies explanation of how Tina died with a regulator in her mouth, I started to rethink through the final scenario between Gabe and Tina in the light of my understanding of how people drown. In the past I was uncertain how relevant my experience with drowning learned from freediving experience would be to this case. I now believe that it would be relevant especially given the way that Divedoggie explained the death could have occurred.

On that basis, Tina's final moments before she descended to the bottom could be described as follows:

She drew water into her lungs over some period of time and eventually began to drown and lose consciousness.

Initially she may have appeared conscious even though semi conscious and could keep finning and maintain her depth.

She had a samba. This is similar to an epileptic fit. During this time she would lose motor skills and her ability to fin and maintain her depth. She would still be semi conscious.

The samba subsided and Tina lost consciousness.

The oxygen levels in her brain fell to a point where she died from hypoxia. ie. She drowned.

BTW, is this kind of thing covered in a scuba rescue/recovery course?

Here is a video that every member of our freedive spearfishing club is told to watch:

NSUC: Samba and Blackouts on Vimeo

Sorry if this is all starting to sound pretty macarb. It is a lot easier to discuss these things impassively if you are not emotionally involved with the incident and sometimes the discussion could appear callous to those who feel that involvement.

 

[DandyDon]

There are currently 11 users browsing this thread. (5 members and 6 guests)

With all the news stories on the web, this thread does not show up on first page of a google search.

 

[alohagal]

Testimony in Gabe Watson trial focuses on dive computer readings | al.com

Dive master testifies in Watson honeymoon death trial

FYI: Today's court reports from Alabama. One of them mentions Gabe's remark about Tina's boobs while she is in her casket.

 

[Foxfish]

Tina's BCD may not have been able to support the amount of weight she was carrying:

The defense has contended Tina Thomas Watson had too much of the extra weights divers carry to stay underwater and her dive vest failed to properly inflate when the trouble began underwater. Inflating the vest requires the diver to press and hold a button, testified Michael Hollis, who was qualified as an expert on diving and diving equipment. Hollis told the prosecution that Tina Thomas Watson's dive vest should have been strong enough to lift her to the surface even if she was carrying 32 pounds of extra weight. But under cross-examination, Hollis said the small dive vest Tina Thomas Watson used may have only been strong enough to lift her with an additional 19 pounds of weight. She was carrying 20 pounds of added weight during the fatal dive.


Witness has harsh words for Gabe Watson in honeymoon murder trial | Alabama's 13

Was Tina wearing a Hollis backpack and is this expert witness, a Mr Hollis, from the same company?

 

[Foxfish]

Information from Gabe's dive computer:

Gabe Watson reached a maximum depth of 54 feet during the dive and stayed at 40-50 feet for about three minutes before beginning his ascent, White testified.

The dive computer data White analyzed indicated Gabe Watson made a steady ascent, and did not stop. The defendant told police he tried to elicit help from another diver before rocketing to the surface. The dive computer also showed the defendant was breathing at a maximum rate, as if he was exerting himself, White testified.

I've wondered for a while about information stored and could be retrieved from Tina's computer. Apparently it had enought information to determine the following.


Tina Thomas Watson reached a maximum depth of 89 feet, where she remained for 10 minutes, White testified. She ascended -- evidence showed a diver brought her, unconscious, to the surface -- at a rapid rate, White testified. Tina Thomas Watson's computer stored less information than Gabe Watson's dive computer, White testified.


Lawyers debate Gabe Watson's ascent rate in fatal Australian honeymoon dive; witness says he discussed wife's insurance | al.com

 

[Foxfish]

I saw a video of Michael Moore testifying for the prosecution today. The commentary on the video suggested that Moore's testimony shattered the prosecution's claim that Gabe was capable of rescuing Tina because of the course they'd done together. I cannot find the video now. Anyone else find it or see it?

 

[Foxfish]

A former human resources manager for department store Parisians, where Tina worked, also testified Friday. The manager said at the time of Tina's death she qualified for a total of $33,000 in life insurance benefits. Not $165,000 the prosecution is arguing Gabe killed her for.

Witness has harsh words for Gabe Watson in honeymoon murder trial | Alabama's 13

The defense lawyer questioning the human relations officer on this matter seemed to have stumped her. When told that the policy brochure indicated that the benefits were not applicable at the time of death there was a long pause and then the officer agreed. On that basis she was eligible for $33,000. Watson sued for $10,000 for the travel insurance.

Hardly seems a motive for murder.

 

[Ayisha]

We can see in one of Alohagirl's links above that the police re-enactment video will not be allowed. We had speculated a long time ago that the video was probably too prejudicial and it looks pretty powerful and plausible in how it could be done.

Regarding the testimony of Michael Moore, it's interesting that he thought that Watson was not trained or experienced enough to do a rescue when Watson did in fact take part in a rescue previously. One of the sources previously stated that Watson had done all his training and dives with Moore, so wouldn't he know that Watson had rescued someone before? His cross-examination should have included that information. According to a poster here many pages back, when someone (possibly Moore?) lost a weight belt, Watson dove down for it to 150 or so feet to retrieve it. McFadyen's account of the situation is different. McFadyen says that Watson kept the buddy at their depth while the instructor retrieved the weight belt. Either way, he has effectively rescued someone before. Something to be asked of the people who were there.

 

[Ayisha]

Yes, it was Michael that lost his weight belt and Gabe assisted in his rescue. Interesting if the prosecution did not cross-examine him on this. Although a poster said it was actually Gabe that dove down to 150 feet, McFadyen says Gabe held Michael and the instructor went to 75 feet to retrieve the weight belt. We have seen a reference to Gabe diving to 150 feet before in one of the early articles. This is what McFadyen states:

In July 1999, Gabe and Mike went on a dive holiday to Cozumel in Mexico [not Cosmill like the Queensland Police transcript states] with Tom and Tom's girlfriend Shelley. On this trip, when swimming along at about 50 to 70 feet, one of Mike's weight pockets fell out of his BCD [BCD - buoyancy compensator device – the vest that holds your tank and when inflated with air keeps you neutrally buoyant]. This of course made Mike buoyant and to stop him floating to the surface, Gabe grabbed hold of him and kept him at the same depth till Tom retrieved the pocket from the bottom at about 75 feet. This showed a bit of skill on Gabe's behalf.

I actually think at this time that the prosecution does not know the case as well as the defence. At least two members of the defence team [Gabe's Dad and McFadyen under his pseudonym(s)] are on here watching everything unfold and who knows if the prosecution is checking anywhere for leads.

 

[Foxfish]

This video is interesting. It includes testimony from Stutz, Snyder and Snyder's wife whom Gabe spent the day with after Tina's death. gabe - Yahoo! Video Search

Keep in mind that the video is heavily edited. Losing the context of the testimony and having it heavily interpretted by the reporter can drastically change its intent. For example, the comments by Stutz of what he supposedly saw seems to correspond with Snyder's. He says that he observed "she was in stress, she was facing upwards, she was not in any way swimming." But this appears to be the description after the Tina separated from Gabe. I'd suggest that it is possible that just prior to this Tina's arms and legs were 'flailing' as Stutz had observed in earlier testimony recorded some years before.

In Snyder's testimony, it appears he is claiming that Gabe's story that Tina knocked his mask because she was in a state of panic was not plausible. He states " You cannot be in a full blown panic underwater and then all of a sudden serenely start sinking with your hands outstretched looking at someone." It seems this was the reason that Snyder used the expletive when Gabe first got to the surface and related to him what happened.

Snyder's terse response is a concern. Firstly it shows a basic lack of decency in responding to a person confiding that he has just lost his wife. Secondly it shows an unwillingness to give careful consideration to Gabe's observations because they did not fit in with his own preconceived ideas of what happens when a person drowns. It is possible those ideas are misguided as discussed below.

If we accept that Tina had drowned in the way suggested by Divedoggie, then it is possible that at the time Gabe approached her she began to have a 'samba' ie. started to convulse in a kind of epileptic fit. This is one of the stages I mentioned above.

I've personally witnessed this happen to a free diver and some of the remarks by Gabe and Stutz' later testimony seem consistent with what I witnessed. Fortunately the person involved was quickly pulled out of the water and recovered. I clearly recall the convulsions started underwater and then continued for some time after the diver had been pulled above the water. Keep in mind that in Tina's case the lack of air to her lungs was because her lungs became clogged with water, not because she was deliberately holding her breath as in free diving. I expect either way a person would go through similar stages.

When a person has a samba, it is like having an epileptic fit. If Gabe was nearby trying to help Tina the testimony that he had his mask knocked off his face and his regulator mouthpiece torn away from the regulator is consistent with what you would expect.

I understand that a samba finishes as suddenly as it starts when the diver eventually loses consciousness. So Tina's samba could have stopped around the time Gabe began to make for the surface. At that time her movements would became slow and without energy and then she would go limp as she lost consciousness and sank to the bottom. Gabe's testimony indicates that he witnessed both of these stages.