Watson Murder Case - Discussion

[DandyDon]

Welcome to SB, An. So that's your first post?

I think there are several reasons why scuba murder is rare. Here are a couple that come to mind...

1: When murder is premeditated, the criminal must first seek opportunity - and it's rare that the criminal and intended victim are scuba buddies, so other means are selected.

2: Even if they are scuba buddies, to make it certain death, but look like an accident, without witnesses, would be challenging. We've built so much safety into our equipment that it'd be difficult to kill another diver while both below, then cover that up, and not be seen doing it all.

And not many murders are premeditated are they...?

 

[AN]

I don't know if most homicides are premeditated, however I would think that the ones that are premeditated involve victims who are close to or familiar with their killers because there is some reason or motive to plan a murder (outside of serial killers). It just seems to me that the dive community (and by that I mean the posters on this board as well as other dive websites I have visited) is completely closed to the possibility that someone could kill another person while scuba diving. I believe Edmonds stated that he believes the Australian police came to the conclusion that Gabe did it and then tried to find evidence for that conclusion. However, how many times has someone been investigated for murder while scuba diving in Australia? Did the police officers just wake up one morning and say "the next diving fatality is going to be investigated as a homicide?" To me that if much for far-fetched than a husband killing his wife while scuba diving.

 

[ItsBruce]

...Did the police officers just wake up one morning and say "the next diving fatality is going to be investigated as a homicide?" To me that if much for far-fetched than a husband killing his wife while scuba diving.

I don't think the Australian police just pulled the homicide theory out of thin air. Watson did and said some things that probably triggered suspicion. Then the police did a poor and biased investigation. (That is why experts on criminal law say never to talk to the police.)

 

[ItsBruce]

... Is it possible that it does occur more often? If so, is it that the dive community refuses to believe it could happen or that unless there is an eyewitness, no one will believe it happened?

Although there are risks inherent in diving that do not exist on land, a diving homicide requires a convergence of improbable factors.

Is it possible that while diving, a diver will decide to kill a dive buddy? Sure. But it is more likely that such a person would make that decision while on try land, if for no other reason that such a person spends far more time on dry land.

Is it possible that someone will plan to use a dive as an opportunity to kill a dive buddy? Sure. But it is more likely such a person would plan the killing to be on dry land. First, what is the chance of such a person being a diver or deciding to learn to dive just so he or she could commit a murder? While there are lots of divers in the world, there are lots more non-divers.

Is it possible that someone will plan to use a dive as an opportunity to kill a specific dive buddy. Sure. But add in the factor of the target being a diver or being persuaded to learn to dive.

As far as eyewitnesses, I don't think that many people will require an eyewitness to a homicide to believe it was a homicide. However, they will need some sort of a viable explanation, with at least some actual evidence, of how the decedent's demise is linked to acts or omissions of the suspect. For example, and at the risk of repeating myself: How is it that Watson may have caused Tina's death and what evidence is there of that? The theory is that he turned off her air, waited until she was incapacitated and then turned it back on. However, as I understand it, there is no actual "evidence" of this other than that she was found dead. There may have been motive, but that does not, IMHO, bridge the gap.

 

[AN]

"Is it possible that someone will plan to use a dive as an opportunity to kill a dive buddy? Sure. But it is more likely such a person would plan the killing to be on dry land. First, what is the chance of such a person being a diver or deciding to learn to dive just so he or she could commit a murder? While there are lots of divers in the world, there are lots more non-divers."

Actually, if I am a diver and I want to kill someone, there is no doubt in my mind that I would rather do it underwater where little or no forensic evidence may be collected. Additionally, if I want to kill someone close to me who is not a diver, then I put pressure on them and convince them to learn how to dive. I believe the victim's words to her dive instructor were something to the effect of "If I don't pass this dive course, he (meaning Watson) will kill me." Now that could be an exaggerated statement or if could be actual fear, we don't know.

"they will need some sort of a viable explanation, with at least some actual evidence, of how the decedent's demise is linked to acts or omissions of the suspect. For example, and at the risk of repeating myself: How is it that Watson may have caused Tina's death and what evidence is there of that? The theory is that he turned off her air, waited until she was incapacitated and then turned it back on. However, as I understand it, there is no actual "evidence" of this other than that she was found dead. There may have been motive, but that does not, IMHO, bridge the gap."

I think if you're looking for the "smoking gun" then you have proved my point. There will never be physical evidence of a diving murder, absent an eyewitness. On land you can look for DNA, fingerprints, etc., but not underwater. Even on land you don't always have those things and you have to rely on motive, means, and the accused's behavior.

 

[AN]

Also, you mentioned police bias. How were they biased? Was it because he was an American? It looks like they began the investigation as an accident, tried to corroborate Watson's story and found a number of blatant lies. If there is no "smoking gun", what was he lying about?

 

[DandyDon]

An, I don't guess you've read the last 1400 posts on this, where it's all been discussed at depth.

Looks like Alabama will have their dog & pony show next month, if there are no more delays: Judge clears way for Gabe Watson murder trial Feb. 13 in Australia honeymoon drowning | al.com I wonder if they'd be so hot to try Gabe if they'd ever got to try the suspect in the Natalee Holloway case?

 

[Lookmanohands]

Also, you mentioned police bias. How were they biased? Was it because he was an American? It looks like they began the investigation as an accident, tried to corroborate Watson's story and found a number of blatant lies. If there is no "smoking gun", what was he lying about?

An, I think you need to read this

Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site

You may find the 2nd page with the dive chart useful to help you with the eyewitness issue. The 3rd section may help educate you about the "lies" told. It is broken down in nice chart from to help you out. And lastly, on the 5th section Incorrect Claims Made at the Inquest But Accepted as Fact McFadyen even lists what each police officer says and how they were actually wrong but accepted as fact. See how neat that is that this section shows what the heading says it will show. You only have to go back a few pages on this board to see McFadyen's post.

An, I would like to pose a question to you. It is pretty obvious most people need a motive to kill someone. So what in your opinion was Gabe's motive to kill Tina? And if you respond money, please be sure to specify for the class where the money was coming from and why Gabe needed the money so bad he would kill his wife for it on their honeymoon in front of 30 other people for it.

Oh and you asked about Edmund's in an earlier post. You should Google him. I think when this guy speak his opinion about diving deaths, people listen. He is most likely the smartest guy alive when it comes to diving deaths right now.

T - 3 weeks til the state of Alabama AG office is shown to be the fools we already know they are and my man gets to stay out later than 8pm.

 

[VeryRusty]

Honeymoon dive murder trial next week | The Courier-Mail

Tina's family feel they have a case. There are those of us who have had dealings with Gabe who don't trust him as far as I could throw him, and I'm not a family member. Being a jerk doesn't make you a killer, but if court cases were settled on gut instinct Gabe would never see the light of day again.

 

[theduckguru]

There is a difference between vengence and justice