Water skill levels of Open Water students & course pace

[DivemasterDennis]

All students must meet the same requirements to get certified, and the standards are what maintains the integrity of the process. Moreover, it is not fair to move an entire class at the slowest student's pace ( nor at the fastest student's pace). Competent instructors have been dong the work a while and a have a routine that is fair to as many in a class as possible. Nearly all shops and instructors offer private classes if you insist on being the measure of pace and progress all by yourself and that is a good route to go. All group activities require losing individual control to some extent and that includes scuba classes. I'm glad lexir got his certification - meeting the same standards as everyone else. And I am glad that he took time for a remedial class to do it right. Not everyone comes to class with the same skill level, or learning pace. But everyone needs to leave class meeting the same standards. AND... variations in competence after certification lead to a lot of things- people opting for sol dives, posts about a dive cut short because of a fast air depleter in the group, etc. Sometime dives are done with a homogenous group of 2 or more, and sometimes they are like classes- all levels of ability. That can create stress. That's why Debbie and I do almost all of our diving with each other and no one else. But not always.
DivemasterDennis

 

[TSandM]

I think most of us who deal with OW classes know that there are going to be some students who have more trouble than others. The schedule for the class is designed around the average student -- some people will learn faster and get bored, others just can't manage the learning in the time allotted. Our class is three weeks, two nights a week, and two weekend days. Most students can get to a passing OW level in that time, but we have had students who require extra sessions or even had to roll over into the next class. We try to give such students as much individualized attention as we can, but you can't short the students who are doing well by shunting too many resources to a single person with problems. The occasional student really needs a private class, or extra sessions, and they do pay for them -- but that is made clear in the original learning agreement. It's just not feasible to offer a class with a guarantee that EVERY student will get all the time he or she needs to get up to speed, without any additional charge. Pool time is one of the biggest expenses a dive shop has in teaching OW, and if any extra time has to be booked, it has to be paid for.

That said, our students who roll over into the next class do not get charged extra, because they are using no resource that hasn't already been booked for other reasons.

Oh, and btw, experience in the water doesn't necessarily equate to faster scuba learning. I was a snorkeler but a weak swimmer, and although I had definite technique problems in diving, I had no panic issues. It is true that people with extensive swimming experience tend to be more comfortable about being in the water, but they may NOT be better with mask skills, or with functioning UNDER the water.

 

[Diver0001]

Shouldn't instructors realize that there will be students who are going to panic and that some skills aren't going to click right away?

Actually the trick to being an excellent instructor is to find just the right tempo so that students are challenged enough to find it interesting but to avoid crossing the line that causes students to panic.

Sometimes it's not easy to find just the right tempo in a group with mixed levels of talent. Often times these groups are split up or, as in your case, students who need more time are offered more time away from the main group... So to me it sounds like your instructor was aware of tempo issues and tried to mitigate it by offering you more time.

The big question is this: "how did it happen that you felt that your instructor wasn't doing this in your best interest?"

Also, I feel the course should be a couple of weeks longer (this course was 6 weeks).
If I take advanced, I'll be looking into one on one, or at least enroll in a class that has 4 or less people.

Thoughts?

It will be good to look for a smaller class but even a class of 4 can have large differences in student ability coming in. My best advice would be to look into finding an instructor that does semi-private instruction with 2 or maybe 3 students at most on a pay-as-you-go basis.

R..

 

[scubafanatic]

OP -- Very sorry about your experience BUT, quite frankly, most people would find a 6 week open water course to be extremely long.

6 weeks ? I was certified back in 2001 in 2 weekends (4 days) ! 1st weekend class/pool, 2nd weekend open water dives at the quarry, total = 4 days! Later on, picked up AOW in 2 days (1 weekend at the lake).

 

[Subcooled]

I got the sense that the instructor didn't want to bore the experienced students and moved along quickly (...) Shouldn't instructors realize that there will be students who are going to panic and that some skills aren't going to click right away? Also, I feel the course should be a couple of weeks longer (this course was 6 weeks).
If I take advanced, I'll be looking into one on one, or at least enroll in a class that has 4 or less people.

Thoughts?

One person can only do so much. I'm sure your instructor did his/her best, but if one student is a slower learner then an assistant would be needed - someone that can concentrate on one group while the instructor works with the other group. Involving two persons or running a more extended class costs money, and diving instruction for sure is not a gold mine. Some sort of compromise must be found.

The good news is that the courses only introduce important things and most of the learning happens afterward. Experience we call it. After a hundred dives you will be a lot better diver The beginning, for most of us(?), has been a struggle...

You should consider an approach, where training is free, for common good : Join a diving club (a proper club not affiliated with a commercial operator) and get to dive with more experienced buddies. You'll learn a lot from your mentors.

 

[tdtaylor]

TS&M put it well.

Our shop offers three class lengths- 2 days of Class/pool on one weekend and then OW dives; 3 weeks class on Wed. and pool on Sat. and then OW dives; and a 4 week version. By far, the 2 day is the most subscribed to. Can't say any of us enjoy teaching it, because it is a lot of information to learn in a condensed time, and often not enough time to develop proper habits. I believe most of us enjoy teaching the three week version, allowing time between alternating classes and pool session to work out issues and answer questions. We also never have greater than a 1 to 4 ratio of students to Instructors/DCS, allowing us some flexibility to work occasionally with some students one on one, although some student end up rolling over into the next class if the instructor does not feel they are ready for OW checkouts.

Terry

 

[emoreira]

6 weeks ? I was certified back in 2001 in 2 weekends (4 days) ! 1st weekend class/pool, 2nd weekend open water dives at the quarry, total = 4 days! Later on, picked up AOW in 2 days (1 weekend at the lake).

The course I took was 15 weeks (90 minutes classroom and 90 minutes pool per week) + classroom and pool exams prior to the OW dives check-out.

The school where I took the class also offers, at extra charge, extra pool time for those students that need to practice the drills, or were absent to a particular pool session or just want to stay "wet" or stay in touch with fellow divers. An instructor and several DCSs are available in that extra pool time.
This also serves as a meeting point for students and divers already certified and improves camaraderie.
Students and divers can also rent tanks, BCD and reg set just to keep drills fresh. The school also pushes divers and students to test new gear in the pool prior to any dive excursion.

 

[toddthecat]

As mentioned by several others, instructors DO realize that students will pick up material at different paces. I'm a bit curious as to why you're bringing it up and upset about it AFTER the fact. I and the other instructors I hire all encourage students to let us know if they are feel like they are having trouble or need some more time or assistance. The instructor cannot read your mind and tell what you are feeling. If you were feeling rushed and upset but you masked it and didn't speak up then I can hardly say it is fair for you to put blame on the instructor.

On the other hand, if the instructor didn't make it clear that this wasn't some sort of contest, then that sort of sucks too...

You also say, "Last I checked, the only requirements for the course are being able to swim and tread on water.". What else were you required to do? If you knew you were going to have trouble doing the swim and float, then why didn't you get swimming lessons beforehand?

 

[TMHeimer]

Irrelevant to diving, but most of the last few posts point out the difficult job being a classroom school teacher is these days (a fact many of the general public is unaware of). The problems dealt with in scuba are with classes of about 6-12 people (with one or two assistants), not 30-40. Granted, teaching scuba skills deals with matters of life and death whereas school teaching does not (except maybe in the South Bronx--or Yonkers...).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My OW classes are on average 7 weeks with 8 being the norm. two nights a week. Classroom one night and 2 - 2 1/2 hours pool the other night. Min of 16 hours in the pool.