Water in regulator at depth causing panic

[boulderjohn]

I would expect all divers to be able to hold their breath for at least a minute or else they probably aren't fit enough to dive.

As you said repeatedly throughout the reset of the thread, you did not actually say that a diver should hold the breath during the ascent, but that is what most people would infer from what you wrote. I sure did, and that is after rereading it after your strongly worded attacks on the reading ability of those who said you did.

A joint DAN/PADI study on dive fatalities found that an air embolism following a rapid ascent to the surface (with the diver obviously holding the breath) is the number one incident-related reason for dive fatalities. That is why I am so obsessed with two things I see repeated over and over and over and over on ScubaBoard (including this thread):

• It would be really hard to get to the surface in an out of air emergency.
• Your ability to get to the surface in an out of air emergency depends upon your ability to hold your breath.

Here is the reality:

• Training for escape from submarines has had sailors successfully reach the surface from 300 feet, starting after they exhale first and then continuing to exhale all the way to the surface.
• If you are exhaling all the way to the surface, your ability to hold your breath has zero, nada, nil, nothing to do with your ability to get to the surface.

 

[noserider]

I don’t disagree with you wanting to explain how to do a CESA and of the highlighting the risks, which is the right thing to do but something all divers should already be aware of as it is drummed into you during training.

You are however yet again making sweeping assumptions that most people would comprehend statements the same way as you do. This is very presumptuous and again not fact based, it is just your opinion, everyone has opinions and they are just that opinions and not facts.

 

[inquis]

You are however yet again making sweeping assumptions that most people would comprehend statements the same way as you do.

You stated that, "an emergency ascent should be achievable", estimated that the ascent "would take a minute", and then stated all divers should "be able to hold their breath for at least a minute". I don't see how anyone could connect those dots in any other manner.

 

[rick00001967]

Interesting. I had the same experience a number of years ago. It was a big problem for me to get over. Took a number of years.

Good decision going on the second dive. Glad it worked out. For me the second dive was worse. But thats another story.

I am not sure how many instructors / agencies teach students to switch to their own alternate in a situation like this. I know i wasnt. But we also had it on our left side. Again, thats another story. Lol

Certainly the right thing to do is get to your buddy asap. Kinda sounds like you were not sure where your buddy was or maybe you were not assigned one? A good instructor, after being asked "how far should i be from my buddy" once said......"how far do you wanna swim without air?"

Once you had air, then trying your back up was a good idea.

Avoiding bolting to the surface was the best thing you were able to do. Usually once a diver has bolted, it is tough to break that habit.

If the reg leaked, one of the exhaust valves may not have been seated properly. Might have folded over or had sand in it etc. It often can be a bad mouth piece too. Torn or not secured properly.

We taught our students to dry breathe each reg before turning on their gas. The reg should be air tight. I never see other divers do this.

 

[steinbil]

If you are exhaling all the way to the surface, your ability to hold your breath has zero, nada, nil, nothing to do with your ability to get to the surface.

Assertions like this one have been made several times in this thread, but is that really accurate? The involuntary convulsions to inhale is, if I understand it correctly, triggered by excess CO2, and as far as I know is not related to lung volume. So even if you continuously exhale, and you maintain lung volume through as ambient pressure decreases, is it not a matter of CO2 tolerance or mental control that decides when you gasp for breath? If I'm correct, then the mental control (or CO2 tolerance if that is an actual thing) you gain from breath hold training would surely help delay the first inhalation as you're racing for the surface, would it not?

Or is this effect somehow negated by the drop of PPCO2 as you ascend?

 

[berndo]

Is that sweeping generalisation aimed at all technical divers or just one you once saw?

Really? 'I have seen' is not a 'generalisation' but a report on what I've seen.
'Plenty' is not one.

 

[lexvil]

Knowing something can be done is key

Escape From Below: The Pressurized Sub Escape Trainer

The Navy’s submariners thrived in the depths of the world’s oceans, but what do they do if a sub isn’t able to resurface?

www.defense.gov

once you know it can be done hope you never need to do it. Controlling panic is the next key to increased chance of survival.

 

[Wibble]

Really? 'I have seen' is not a 'generalisation' but a report on what I've seen.
'Plenty' is not one.

Just FIY, I have seen countless rec divers who are much better divers [than] many of the so called 'tec' divers. When people goof on bad divers on the internet or in real life, it's often new divers they goof on and laugh at. The biggest difference in my experience is that 'tec' divers tend to be more full of themselves and have spend a more money. I see plenty of 'tec' rebreather divers with bad trim and bad bouyancy even in caves.
Either you know how to properly use you kit or you don't.

Seems a generalisation to me.

I've seen a lot of tech divers who are mostly all pretty capable. Everyone has a buoyancy fart occasionally, but you do need to have solid skills if you're in a hard or soft overhead environment with mixed gases; not to mention planning and fallback recovery skills for when things go wrong.

It is worrying that you've seen "tec" divers in caves with lousy trim & buoyancy in a cave environment, we all know how dangerous that is. Assume this was once, or was it in a specific location that some DiveMasters took people beyond the cavern zone?

Either you know how to properly use you kit or you don't.

As an experienced diver -- am making that assumption here -- you will understand that it's not binary. We all have made mistakes. The important thing is how you recover from them.

 

[SysGreg]

Don't you put one hand over your mask and reg when you jump into the water?

Well, you focus mostly on the mask keeping tanks with both arms, then you expell the gas from the lungs upon ascend. At that time the reg was gone. Maybe I was sloppy or it happened when the reg was released from the hand on the way up. Not sure, but interesting point. Will focus on that subject when jumping next time to understand at which moment the reg flown away. Thanks for the notice.

 

[Wibble]

Well, you focus mostly on the mask keeping tanks with both arms, then you expell the gas from the lungs, at that time the reg was gone. Maybe I was sloppy or it happened when the reg was released from the hand. Not sure, but interesting point. Will focus on that subject when jumping next time to understand at which moment the reg flown away. Thanks for the notice.

Happened to me once! Jumped off the boat and got a mouthful of water. Blew it out and tried inhaling again and more water. Then realised I had the mouthpiece in my mouth with no regulator attached!

As I was on the surface I filled up the BCD and swam back to the boat and got the skipper's mate to fit the mouthpiece back on the longhose and continued the dive knowing that I needed to be careful.

It's funny how long it takes you to realise that there's no regulator attached!