Water in regulator at depth causing panic

[Boarderguy]

As you ascend the relative pressure of gas in your lungs increases so you have to exhale or risk a burst lung.

If you started off with 10 units of oxygen in your lungs and ascended whilst breathing out then you will have less oxygen to use.

Or technically, the oxygen partial pressure drops when you ascend. Hence freedivers pass out.

Thanks Wibble. PPO2 is not my forte but I understand it doubling per ata giving higher density of O2. I just misspoke.
Edit: not doubling but going .21 to .42 to .63 if I understand correctly.

 

[Wibble]

Thanks Wibble. PPO2 is not my forte but I understand it doubling per ata giving higher density of O2. I just misspoke.
Edit: not doubling but going .21 to .42 to .63 if I understand correctly.

It’s a really big thing for rebreather divers (and freedivers). Barely relevant for bubble blowers

 

[noserider]

You're right of course silly goose. Don't be mad that you're ignorant use of a term that should never be used while describing ascents was called out. I should have said air as the volume in your lungs from 3 ata will more than double abs ppo will halve. Wrong words and they matter.

On that note having access to that added air volume will keep you from needing another breath.

I am not mad just frustrated with anal nature of your post, and you blatantly lied and said i was advising holding your breath on an ascent.

It is also slightly ironic that despite wanting to be seen as an expert diver and pull others that you get fundamental dive physics wrong, I do hope you are not teaching anyone

 

[steinbil]

On that note having access to that added air volume will keep you from needing another breath.

That's not actually correct. The feeling of needing a breath comes from high levels of CO2, not from a low lung volume. And what you actually need is a high enough PPO2 to sustain consciousness/life. But since you have already been breathing a higher than normal PPO2 at depth, I would think shallow water blackout is less of a problem then it would be for a free diver.

 

[noserider]

That's not actually correct. The feeling of needing a breath comes from high levels of CO2, not from a low lung volume. And what you actually need is a high enough PPO2 to sustain consciousness/life. But since you have already been breathing a higher than normal PPO2 at depth, I would think shallow water blackout is less of a problem then it would be for a free diver.

He has admitted that he misspoke or more accurately lied through a lack of knowledge and understanding of basic dive physics

 

[Boarderguy]

I am not mad just frustrated with anal nature of your post, and you blatantly lied and said i was advising holding your breath on an ascent.

It is also slightly ironic that despite wanting to be seen as an expert diver and pull others that you get fundamental dive physics wrong, I do hope you are not teaching anyone

The way your post was worded came across as being able to hold your breath is tantamount to doing the same on an emergency ascent. I put a bit of clarity hoping some new diver didn't see that the same way I did and burst their lungs. This is the accident section and we should be clear here for that reason, not bickering about stupid crap.

I've never held myself to be an expert diver. I've been diving for 22 years and I get wet once or twice a week. I know a lot about what I do. CC and tech (trimix) dives are outside of my realm and I haven't bothered to learn enough about it to speak with any authority. Thanks for the encouragement to now add to my repertoire.

 

[lowwall]

There is signal and noise in life and on SB. This original post and the helpful responses that followed it are an example of the signal.

You had to go and jinx it.

 

[noserider]

The way your post was worded came across as being able to hold your breath is tantamount to doing the same on an emergency ascent. I put a bit of clarity hoping some new diver didn't see that the same way I did and burst their lungs. This is the accident section and we should be clear here for that reason, not bickering about stupid crap.

I've never held myself to be an expert diver. I've been diving for 22 years and I get wet once or twice a week. I know a lot about what I do. CC and tech (trimix) dives are outside of my realm and I haven't bothered to learn enough about it to speak with any authority. Thanks for the encouragement to now add to my repertoire.

That was not what I said, as you have now admitted, but it is how you understood what I said, perhaps you also need to work on your comprehension skills as well as your basic physics skills.

The bickering only starts when people lie, you had an opportunity to retract and chose not to

 

[GJC]

Had an incident today that shook me up a little bit. Trying to understand how it happened, how to avoid it, and what the best solution would have been.

By way of background: I have my AOW and just over 100 dives under my belt. But it has been close to 2 years since my last dive.

I’m on vacation in the Caribbean. On a typical 2-tank boat dive today, all rental gear. Went through my safety procedures on the surface: check my gauges, breath in through both my primary and backup regulators, know where my weights are. Hop off the boat into the water. Descend vertically to the bottom at around 60 feet. Start swimming horizontally. My breathing is under control.

A few minutes later…out of nowhere I get a mouthful of water. My reg is in my mouth. I stop the water from going into my lungs. I breath out hoping the water will purge and my next breath will be okay. Nope. Second breath still has water. If I inhale fully, I’ll get it in my lungs. At this point I start to panic.

I think about heading to the surface, even taking a kick or two. It dawns on me quickly that I won’t make it and/or a rapid ascent will probably kill me. I look around for the nearest diver, luckily about 6 feet away- still a swim but better than nothing- hoping to use their back-up regulator. Then I remember I have my own back-up regulator. I grab it, press the purge valve to blow out air and clear out any water, and put it in my mouth. I can breath again. Crisis averted.

Looking back, it’s rather amazing: 1) how easily panic can set in, interfering with clear thinking; and 2) how quickly all this happened - probably less than 90 seconds total.

I’m guessing I could have pressed the purge valve on my primary regulator - but in the instant I really thought it had some kind of mechanical failure. And of course my own backup regulator was there the whole time!

I finished that dive without any further incident. I was even able to switch back and forth between the two regulators and they both worked fine.

I had some reservations about doing the 2nd dive but thought if I didn’t, I might never dive again. ”Gotta get back on that horse”. Interestingly, when I hopped in the water for the second dive, there was a decent leak coming out near my gauge. Lots of bubbles. I went back to the ladder, told the guides, they had me remove my kit, did some repairs near the gauge, and handed it back to me. No more leak. No idea if that was related or not. Completed my second dive without incident.

I am still feeling a bit unsettled. There could have been serious consequences. And I still don’t know if there was a real mechanical issue or if this was user error. Could I have relaxed my mouth in a way that broke the seal with the regulator? Could I have moved an arm in a way that would have accidentally pulled on the hose to my regulator, breaking the seal? So strange. This has never happened to me before. Did the leak to the gauge have any connection? I still don’t really understand what happened.

I am glad I have practiced switching regulators underwater and that skill was there for me in a panic situation.

Also good to remember you do have a little bit of time without a breath of air to resolve problems.

Also a good reminder to keep a dive buddy nearby.

Regarding the water in the reg:

I suspect that the leak was caused by something preventing the exhaust valve from sealing. This could be from a deteriorating valve or a foreign body lodged in the sealing surface. Something like salt crystals, sand, a leaf that blew in before the dive, or maybe even a bug that died in the reg before the dive. The fact that the reg began working normally again during the dive kinda rules out a hole in the valve, diaphagm or mouthpiece.

Regarding the gauge leak:

Could be a damaged gauge that got cracked when it hit or was hit by something or could be an O ring leaking. Gauge O rings sometimes are not replaced during regulator servicing and may not be replaced for many years. That's why there is that tiny O ring in your O ring save a dive kit. It's easy to replace one. Just a bit harder to do than replacing a hose O ring.

Regarding your response:

Overall good job and your thought process was sound. But as you realized the order of your solutions was wrong. And then you reprioritized and your actions were correct.

Prevention:

Use your own gear not rental gear. Rental gear is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get. Traveling with your own gear is not that difficult. The minimum should be mask, regulator and dive computer. If you have room, add BCD, fins, exposure suit and whatever else you have room to carry.

Mentally prepare for an out of air event before each dive. Check your gear before entry. Practice with your partner. Realize that an out of air event can occur when you are working hard and fully exhaled. This may give you as little as 15 to 30 seconds before the urge to breath overcomes everything else.

 

[Salt]

Glad you remembered the octopus and agree that you should have done a skills session before diving after being out for over a year, 10-15 mins in a hotel pool is normally enough and quite often free.

The other point is at 60 feet, an emergency ascent should be achievable, currently PADI advise you should ascend in normal circumatsnaces at 30 feet per minute, which would mean you have 2 mins to get to the surface, but up until a few years ago the safe rate was 60 feet per minute, which would take a minute. Obviously in an emergency situation you could exceed these rates and I would expect all divers to be able to hold their breath for at least a minute or else they probably aren't fit enough to dive.

I think the physical exertion of kicking through 60 feet of water without new air would have been quite difficult. Heck, I thought it was going to be challenging (but doable) just to make it over to the nearest diver!