Water entry with regulator in mouth can cause embolism?

[Mr Carcharodon]

Sounds to me like classic equipment based solutions to problems that are really skill deficiencies. If the surf is too big for a diver's skill level I recommend going to a more protected entry/exit or staying on the shore.

The equipment in this case is scuba equipment, which is fairly unavoidalble during scuba diving.

 

[Thalassamania]

No, the question in this case is the substitution of scuba equipment for basic watermanship. The problem is that if a diver lacks the skills to get through the surf without the assistance of scuba equipment ... perhaps that a good day to stay on the beach.

 

[nilsdiver]

There was an article I saw by DAN which stated the pressure change from about 3fsw to the surface was enough to cause AGE or at least some kind of damage from gas expansion.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

No, the question in this case is the substitution of scuba equipment for basic watermanship. The problem is that if a diver lacks the skills to get through the surf without the assistance of scuba equipment ... perhaps that a good day to stay on the beach.

Thal is right on this one. So what if you are entering in 4 ft surf? I exited in 6 ft surf once when a storm blew in while I was diving. It did not kill me because while the reg was in my mouth for a portion of the exit, I was smart enough not to close my airway. As long as the air is free to rush out as well as in, it is a non problem.

 

[RubberDucky]

There was an article I saw by DAN which stated the pressure change from about 3fsw to the surface was enough to cause AGE or at least some kind of damage from gas expansion.

p. 125 of "Scuba Diving", Third Edition (the "Official scuba instruction manual of the YMCA of the USA") basically says the same thing, but you have to be breaking the cardinal rule of diving to do this:

When you ascend, the air in your lungs expands as the surrounding pressure decreases. If you hold your breath, your lungs expand until they reach their maximum volume, then rupture with an ascent of as little as four feet (1.2 meters).

 

[Thalassamania]

It's really hard to overcome the instinct to hold your breath, even with a regulator in your mouth, when you are badly tumbled in the surf. In fact I'd go so far as to say it is damn near impossible for anyone except a highly experienced surfer who has experienced the "washing machine" numerous times.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Thal is right on this one. So what if you are entering in 4 ft surf? I exited in 6 ft surf once when a storm blew in while I was diving. It did not kill me because while the reg was in my mouth for a portion of the exit, I was smart enough not to close my airway. As long as the air is free to rush out as well as in, it is a non problem.

I believe he was recommending against a regulator in entry. I have to disagree for conditions where you could get out of breath on the entry.

Given the evidence is fairly anecdotal on both sides of the argument but in my area there have been several cases of surf entry related drowning in recent years and no cases of surf entry related embolism. It seems remarkable that people have managed to drown while carrying around over an hourÃÔ supply of breathing gas. But they have, and as such the advice to enter regulator out seems ill advised.

And yes it would be better if all dives were conducted with good skills, judgment and conditions. Hopefully none of us will hold our breath for that either.

 

[Gary D.]

It's really hard to overcome the instinct to hold your breath, even with a regulator in your mouth, when you are badly tumbled in the surf. In fact I'd go so far as to say it is damn near impossible for anyone except a highly experienced surfer who has experienced the "washing machine" numerous times.

If you get into the washing machine grab your mask and reg, protect your head and go for the ride. Just keep breathing until it's over which normally isn't that long.

Gary D.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you get into the washing machine grab your mask and reg, protect your head and go for the ride. Just keep breathing until it's over which normally isn't that long.

Gary D.

That's easy for you to say in Idaho. Try it on a five to ten day at Monastery or Gerstle Cove.

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

The studies on the exact pressure are pretty limited for obvious reasons but the pressure seems to be around 80 mmHg. So given that this was fresh cadavers and only a few of those, hearing 3 to 4 fsw change for barotrauma to occur is a pretty good estimate.

The reference and explanation of the Royal Navy study is found in a post from an earlier thread here.



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