Warning on travel from Santa Rosa

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One of the first times I dove the Blue Hole Stella mentioned an article in the paper about divers getting bent on Raton Pass. The physiology of diving indicates that any rapid change in external pressure can bring on the bends. Better safe than sorry in my opinion.

How did the symptoms present themselves in this case? Did they appear as you cleared the pass? Thanks for the heads up.
 
John, Sorry to hear about your buddy.

Sam's post is spot on:

Another consideration:

Although Raton Pass (~7834 ft) is the highest point before entering Colorado, not everyone is aware how much of the elevation increase occurs how early. Just the trip from Santa Rosa (~4615 ft) to Las Vegas (~6450 ft) is over half the elevation gain experienced on the way to Raton Pass. But we don't notice it so much because it is pretty gradual.

Las Vegas and the City of Raton (~6350 ft) are at essentially the same elevation, and then you get the rapid increase.

Someone pointed out this post a year or two ago. I didn't realize the difference between Santa Roas and Las Vegas was so significant!

Ron, when we lived in Colorado and made the Blue HOle trip regularly from there, we were informed several times about other local divers getting bent. They had only done dives at Blue Hole, none were deco. It does happen. That is why our LDS always had everyone spend at least an hour in Santa Rosa before starting the drive home, then we all met at the Pizza Hut in Las Vegas for lunch for another one hour sit. Then we drove to Raton and met up at Dairy Queen for another sit of 30 minutes or so. That was our LDS safe ascent plan, making for a long drive home but safer for sure. Not everyone followed this, but we always did. The times we heard about divers ending up at the chamber, they had not followed this, one was even an instructor who drove her little sports car from BH right over the pass without any stops!

robin:D

That sounds like the LDS I was OW Certified by. They stress the importance of delaying the climb up Raton pass and they "forced" us to stop at the Pizza Hut in Las Vegas by not signing our log books or cert forms until at the Pizza Hut. They further suggested the ice cream stop in Ration before driving the pass.

They only stressed Raton Pass. Nothing was said or acknowledged regarding elevation gain to Las Vegas. I followed this guidance unquestioningly, without looking further into it, until either Sam or Roger (can't remember which) posted a reference to the post I referenced above. Basically, I was a "trust me" driver. Since reading the post, I always delay my departure from the Hole by casually packing up my gear, and eating lunch before departure. Lunch is often burgers and brats, cooked by Ron, so it's not a quick PB&J sandwich and hit the road.

My feeling is if I'm going to delay my arrival home, I might as well delay it at the beginning of the trip, where it might do the most good. Also, as most who have ridden with me can attest, once I hit the road, you have to ask for any stops, or it will be a non-stop trip back.

[It really is surprising and quite a concern to me how many "trust me" dives and drives I've followed, believing the instructor or DM and carefully considered my welfare prior to departing. Now, after a few hundred dives and completing my Divemaster last month, I'm realizing how naive I was.]

John, one point that was made in the thread I referenced above, was that if you made it to Las Vegas without symptoms, you were probably okay to top the pass an hour or so later. When did your buddy first show signs of DCS? Was it at Las Vegas, Raton Pass, Monument Hill (doubtful) or on his way home above Boulder?

As a side note, that I haven't taken the time to analyze yet. The last time I went to Blue Hole, I changed my computers from Salt water, Sea Level, to Fresh water, but mistakenly set it for an elevation greater than I should have. I can't recall now if I set it for 5,000-8,000 feet or for 8,000-12,000 feet. In any case, there were a couple times that I went into Deco for a few minutes, but as I came up, the Deco obligation (according to the computer) went away. I'm wondering if it might be prudent to add an extra layer of conservatism (I already set my computer as conservative as possible) and set the computer to a higher elevation (ideally, the maximum elevation you expect to obtain within the next 24-hours)? That is one way of using the RDP tables....you just plan your dives at the maximum elevation you expect to see. Any thoughts?

I sure hope we all can learn from this.
 
If you were driving into a storm and gaining altitude, the combined decrease in barometric pressure could contribute to the problem. The storm that came through last weekend tracked along the NM/CO border and was a very low pressure disturbance.

We will take John's warning seriously and conduct our dives and post dives and travel accordingly. This is something we all need to consider with any dive and drive we do around here.
 
John, one point that was made in the thread I referenced above, was that if you made it to Las Vegas without symptoms, you were probably okay to top the pass an hour or so later. When did your buddy first show signs of DCS? Was it at Las Vegas, Raton Pass, Monument Hill (doubtful) or on his way home above Boulder?

As usual, after the dive we were both feeling the ambiguous aches and pains associated with three days of hauling steel doubles around--or was it DCS? That is the problem with those symptoms--you really can't tell because you feel that way every time. We thought we were fine pretty much all the way home. We emptied the van in Boulder about 7 hours after leaving Santa Rosa. I went home and went to bed, awaking the next day feeling probably better than I ever have after such a trip. He called me to tell me he was not doing so well, and I advised him to call DAN. He said that he was so bad during the night that he drove back to the shop and got two O2 kits and drained them overnight.

As a side note, that I haven't taken the time to analyze yet. The last time I went to Blue Hole, I changed my computers from Salt water, Sea Level, to Fresh water, but mistakenly set it for an elevation greater than I should have. I can't recall now if I set it for 5,000-8,000 feet or for 8,000-12,000 feet. In any case, there were a couple times that I went into Deco for a few minutes, but as I came up, the Deco obligation (according to the computer) went away. I'm wondering if it might be prudent to add an extra layer of conservatism (I already set my computer as conservative as possible) and set the computer to a higher elevation (ideally, the maximum elevation you expect to obtain within the next 24-hours)? That is one way of using the RDP tables....you just plan your dives at the maximum elevation you expect to see. Any thoughts?

This is the really controversial part.

We were not using computers at all. Didn't have one with us.

We were using the UTD version of Ratio Deco, which does not recognize altitude as a factor in planning deco.

I later inputted our profile as best I could remember into V-Planner (it was multi-level) to see what would happen, and V-Planner thinks altitude is a big factor. If I programmed it with no altitude consideration, then I got a profile very similar to the one we did. In fact, we did slightly more deco than it called for. When I added altitude, it shifted the deco. We still had similar total times, but it put us on O2 about 6 minutes longer, cutting back on the deeper stops.

EDIT: BTW, I am in Cozumel at the moment, without access to some of my notes, so anything I write now is from memory.
 
As usual, after the dive we were both feeling the ambiguous aches and pains associated with three days of hauling steel doubles around--or was it DCS? That is the problem with those symptoms--you really can't tell because you feel that way every time. We thought we were fine pretty much all the way home. We emptied the van in Boulder about 7 hours after leaving Santa Rosa. I went home and went to bed, awaking the next day feeling probably better than I ever have after such a trip. He called me to tell me he was not doing so well, and I advised him to call DAN. He said that he was so bad during the night that he drove back to the shop and got two O2 kits and drained them overnight.

Wow, I think I would have been on the phone to DAN, especially since I don't have access to a shop with O2 kits. I do have one E-bottle of O2, but I would have probably brought it and used it on the drive home.


This is the really controversial part.

We were not using computers at all. Didn't have one with us.

We were using the UTD version of Ratio Deco, which does not recognize altitude as a factor in planning deco.

I later inputted our profile as best I could remember into V-Planner (it was multi-level) to see what would happen, and V-Planner thinks altitude is a big factor. If I programmed it with no altitude consideration, then I got a profile very similar to the one we did. In fact, we did slightly more deco than it called for. When I added altitude, it shifted the deco. We still had similar total times, but it put us on O2 about 6 minutes longer, cutting back on the deeper stops.

EDIT: BTW, I am in Cozumel at the moment, without access to some of my notes, so anything I write now is from memory.

I wasn't directing that portion of my comment solely to you, since I didn't expect that you did you a computer. Most tech divers I know don't dive computers, but plan their dive, and a contingency dive, and then dive their plan, using time and depth.

Rather I was asking if any of the experienced tech divers thought that planning and executing their dive at the greatest elevation they would see in the subsequent 24 hours was something normally taken into consideration, or if it warrants further consideration.

That seems like a serious deficiency in the UTD protocol.
Good topic to post in the UTF forums.

I had similar thoughts upon reading John's response. I wonder if that is due to a UTD oversight, or if it was a conscience decision they made. I haven't got far enough into deco theory to know whether altitude is part of the equations or thought important enough to be, or not. But, since V-Planner does take it into consideration, I guess some think so.

When you input the data into V-Planner, did you, or is there a way to put your anticipated maximum elevation (like 9,000-ft) including the drive, into the equations, or does it nominally accept the dive site elevation only?

Anyone know how other deco software handles this?
 
Help me with this one? How can you get an average of 131 ft at Blue Hole when bottom is at
80 ft+_? Even altitude adjusted, it's only just over 100.

Jim
 
Help me with this one? How can you get an average of 131 ft at Blue Hole when bottom is at
80 ft+_? Even altitude adjusted, it's only just over 100.

Jim

I don't think they were at Blue Hole, I think they were at Rock Lake which is where most of the tech divers go to deep dive and practice skills.
 
Help me with this one? How can you get an average of 131 ft at Blue Hole when bottom is at
80 ft+_? Even altitude adjusted, it's only just over 100.

Jim
They weren't diving Blue Hole. The OP said he was at Santa Rosa. They were diving Rock Lake, which is >250-feet deep. Rock Lake is only a few miles away from Blue Hole. This was an aggressive technical dive.
 
They weren't diving Blue Hole. The OP said he was at Santa Rosa. They were diving Rock Lake, which is >250-feet deep. Rock Lake is only a few miles away from Blue Hole. This was an aggressive technical dive.

Hello,

An aggressive dive at the wonderful Rock Lake would be the bottom ( 330+ w/ altitude ) for 35+ minutes or longer :D

I would do 150' to see some wonderful rock formations towards the south or CW.

It's a truly beautiful place to dive and train at...

ANYWAY ... I would never jump into the car and head for home after diving RL or BH..
got to blow some N2 off...

B
 
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