Warm weekend 18-19 APR 09 - who's diving where?

[fnfalman]

I can't believe you said that for shame. Don't get me wrong I like the Peace also but the Spectre is my favorite boat.

John

The Peace beats out the Spectre by having a gourmet chef for galley cook and having Nitrox capability. The Spectre has better latrine (head) arrangement though.

The Peace is first in my book with the Spectre second barely edging out the Great Escape. If the Great Escape were to have a hot tub...watch out, Spectre!!! The Great Escape has the best latrines.

 

[Empty V]

Their speed is no different than the speeds of the Sea Bass or the Sundiver Express. All of these little boats haul ass and don't have a lot of room for amenities. You trade comfort for speed.

And I don't know about this 45-minutes gate time. They told us to go and have fun but think about coming back to the boat by around 1-hr time. I don't know about you, but most recreational divers don't stay much past 30-minutes in the California water. We never felt rush, everything were well organized. The sandwiches were not as good as the hot grubs from the Spectre or the Peace (no food from any boat has yet the Peace's gourmet chef but that's another story), but the soup was spectacular and there were plenty of snacks & drinks. They got hangers for us to hang up our dive suits and milk cartons for us to hold other essential gears while they offered to keep our dive bags at the shop and would bring these bags down to the dock upon returning of the boat. It made for a very clean and tidy deck.

As far as running into rock, the Sea Bass almost ran into the break wall one time at full speed during a foggy morning. Haven't deterred me yet from going back to the Sea Bass since that day.

If you don't like the Raptor, that's your prerogative. Thus far, I'm happy with their services. If that were to change in the future then I'll say so.

Like I said no one is doubting you had an extraordinary, amazing and phenomenal time on the Raptor.

What you're doing now is comparing apples to oranges. Due to the hull design and construction materials used, the Sea Bass and the raptor are 2 completely different animals and really can't be compared when it comes to ride comfort.

Knowing how the Raptor rides in rough seas and not giving a damn about your passengers has very little to do with the actual speed of the boat, it has more to do with the mentality of the captain and crew and lack of consideration for anyone but themselves.

There's also a big difference between a boat that's been run up on the rocks and supposedly repaired improperly and a boat that had a close call. Like I said you're comparing apples to oranges.

I also know very few divers that pay $100-$150 for a boat trip and only spend 30min underwater per dive. Having to store your gear in a dive shop sucks, yeah there's a little more room on the boat but I have lots of things that I take in order to prevent having to forfeit a trip, you can never be too prepared. Plus having to use those POS(IMO) LP85's or lugging multiple tanks around is just lame. Not getting a compressor was a really poor decision on their part.

All and all it's a great boat and I encourage you to give them more of your money

Billy

 

[scjoe]

I’ve never been on the Raptor, but I do know experienced divers who have enjoyed it. From the website picture it looks like a Newton which is the standard Caribbean dive boat. It is also what the Sundiver Express is. The ride and amenities are what they are on a boat like that. The Sundiver Express also provides LP 85s., but it does have a compressor.

The 45 minute gate time is not that out of line. I am not sure how the term is being used in this thread, but in some operations, like Reef Seekers, it means the gate is open for 45 minutes and there is a dive time of 30 minutes after the gate closes. Get in first and you can have a 75 minute dive. If the term is being used to designate the length of dive after the gate closes, then you could probably get a 60 minute dive in.

Can't comment on the repair job or the cause of the damage since it seems to be rumor and opinion. Most of the captains have had citations or problems at some point in time. The Sundiver is the boat that left "Drifter Dan" in the water. It is still a well regarded operation.

 

[fnfalman]

All and all it's a great boat and I encourage you to give them more of your money

Billy

You don't have to encourage me to give them more of my money. I've already booked another day with them.

As far as improperly repaired damages, I suppose that you have some sort of official report or is it one of those interweb rumors? These boats have to be certified by the Coast Guards. Methinks them there inspectors may have something to say about certifying the boat for passenger ferry after said repair.

 

[Empty V]

You don't have to encourage me to give them more of my money. I've already booked another day with them.

As far as improperly repaired damages, I suppose that you have some sort of official report or is it one of those interweb rumors? These boats have to be certified by the Coast Guards. Methinks them there inspectors may have something to say about certifying the boat for passenger ferry after said repair.

If you read what I had written before I said "supposedly" so at this point it is just here-say and speculation. As far as what the coast guard certifies, let's just say most boat captains have friends in the coast guard, I've seen it first hand.

Billy

 

[scjoe]

Kind of like the “speculation” that 99% of divers will only use the Raptor once, how the boat ran into the rocks, or that the Coast Guard routinely looks the other way because you have allegedly seen it first hand. Ask the Captain of the Sundiver or the Magician about how they have been treated with kid gloves by the Coast Guard because of their connections. Ask the captain of the Bottom Scratcher how easy the Coast Guard is to deal with on routine inspections.

 

[Empty V]

Kind of like the ÅÔpeculation that 99% of divers will only use the Raptor once, how the boat ran into the rocks, or that the Coast Guard routinely looks the other way because you have allegedly seen it first hand. Ask the Captain of the Sundiver or the Magician about how they have been treated with kid gloves by the Coast Guard because of their connections. Ask the captain of the Bottom Scratcher how easy the Coast Guard is to deal with on routine inspections.

I would consider the 99% as more of an educated guess, have you been on the Raptor? The boat being run up on the rocks is not speculation, I saw thew damage and spoke with crew members. I'm not sure what it's like in San Pedro or Long Beach but boat captains in the Ventura and Channel Islands harbors do have buddies in the Coast Guard. Regarding the structural integrity of the hull, that speculation is built on a first hand account.

Billy

 

[scjoe]

As I initially stated, I have not been on the Raptor, but in this thread, you haven’t gotten over 50% saying they wouldn’t go back on the Raptor so your 99% figure sounds like hyperbole. Nothing wrong with you stating why you don’t like the Raptor, but sticking to facts would be better than just bashing the operation. It sounds like the Raptor has its fans and foes. That makes it like pretty much like every other boat out there.

I didn’t say the boat actually hitting the rocks was speculation, just your claim as to how it occurred (the captain’s inexperience). That is your opinion or speculation (or someone else's) based on what? You didn’t describe the events that led up to the accident.

I have no doubt that there are instances of Coast Guard personnel getting too friendly with boat owners and cutting them slack they shouldn’t. That happens in every organization. You, however, seem to be claiming it is a common occurrence in Ventura. What are you basing this rather serious allegation on and what evidence do you have that it has occurred in connection with the Raptor’s accident? Is this just the old "I know a guy."

Saying your speculation about the hull integrity is built on a first hand account doesn't say much. Who gave you the account, a weekend deckhand buddy of yours, another diver or a marine engineer? It makes a big difference.

It is one thing to dump on a captain you obviously dislike, it is another to suggest he is willing to endanger the lives of his passengers and the Coast Guard of being willing to look the other way. If you really believe what you are saying, you should report the matter to the Coast Guard.

 

[fnfalman]

I would consider the 99% as more of an educated guess, have you been on the Raptor? The boat being run up on the rocks is not speculation, I saw thew damage and spoke with crew members. I'm not sure what it's like in San Pedro or Long Beach but boat captains in the Ventura and Channel Islands harbors do have buddies in the Coast Guard. Regarding the structural integrity of the hull, that speculation is built on a first hand account.

Billy

So, this first hand account is a certified ship inspector of some sort?

Of course, only the Oxnard/Ventura captains have accessible Coast Guard buddies that allow them to take boats that are ill repaired out for passenger ferrying services. The unfortunate captains in LA area don't have that sort of connections. Hey, I'll bet that the Raptor boat has connection to Obama and that's why the Coasties are giving them a break too!!!

99% of the people dived the Raptor and not returning, huh? Since that Garrett58 and his son are returning customers, and I and my friends already made plans to dive with them again. That kind of shot the 99% thing in the ass, doesn't it?

If you don't like the Raptor, fine. You have your opinions. But apparently others like myself and Garrett58 don't share your opinions.

 

[Empty V]

As I initially stated, I have not been on the Raptor, but in this thread, you havenÃÕ gotten over 50% saying they wouldnÃÕ go back on the Raptor so your 99% figure sounds like hyperbole. Nothing wrong with you stating why you donÃÕ like the Raptor, but sticking to facts would be better than just bashing the operation. It sounds like the Raptor has its fans and foes. That makes it like pretty much like every other boat out there.

I didnÃÕ say the boat actually hitting the rocks was speculation, just your claim as to how it occurred (the captainÃÔ inexperience). That is your opinion or speculation (or someone else's) based on what? You didnÃÕ describe the events that led up to the accident.

I have no doubt that there are instances of Coast Guard personnel getting too friendly with boat owners and cutting them slack they shouldnÃÕ. That happens in every organization. You, however, seem to be claiming it is a common occurrence in Ventura. What are you basing this rather serious allegation on and what evidence do you have that it has occurred in connection with the RaptorÃÔ accident? Is this just the old "I know a guy."

Saying your speculation about the hull integrity is built on a first hand account doesn't say much. Who gave you the account, a weekend deckhand buddy of yours, another diver or a marine engineer? It makes a big difference.

It is one thing to dump on a captain you obviously dislike, it is another to suggest he is willing to endanger the lives of his passengers and the Coast Guard of being willing to look the other way. If you really believe what you are saying, you should report the matter to the Coast Guard.

If you're taking a sample rate of 3 then yes, my 99% theory is not applicable. If you started a poll you will most likely see different results. Everyone that I know that has been on the boat will not go back so that's how I got my 99%, I gave the 1% to those that I haven't spoken with about their experience. So if 100% of the people that I know personally have vowed to never go back on that boat then IMO it's POS operation.

The first hand account is from a DM that was working on the boat on a regular basis. I'm not saying that it's a common occurrence for Ventura captains to ask favors of the Coast Guard, I'm just saying it happens and the rumor was that the boat was not structurally sound but still given the green light by the Coast Guard.

I don't have any issues with the former captain. I think they've gone through a few since the boat first launched about 2 years ago, it's the entire operation that bothers me. I'm sure it would make a great warm water boat where the operation doesn't give a damn about the passengers comfort because they'll never see them again, but out here with so much competition it just doesn't cut it.

I hope this clears up any misconception in my previous posts, sorry if I was not perspicuous with what I was stating and what is credible first hand opposed to possible here-say.

Billy