Walk of shame

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Diver85, I'm going to politely differ with you. That they didn't get DCS is not the main thing. That they didn't run out of gas, although they came close -- THAT's the main thing. People survive DCS. People do not survive being without anything to breathe, at least not for very long.

The scariest thing about the story is the lack of gas management. If you run your computer into deco, it shows a lack of awareness, but you can sit out the deco and probably be just fine, if you have the gas to do it. If you don't, you're stuck between running out of air and possible decompression sickness. The answer is to plan -- Plan the gas, because that's the most stringent constraint on the dive, and then plan the nitrogen.
 
Fuzz,

The good news is you have already done the hardest part. You have identified an item in your diving that needs work and are willing to admit it. After that, everything else is just skills or procedures or theory to learn and practice. Awareness and attitude are the biggest hurdles in my opinion for self improvement.

As others have said, look at gas management and dive planning. Bob (NWgratefuldiver) has an excellent read. There are many others here very willing to answer any questions, even those that may appear as foolish or silly.

Dive safe
 
Fuzz thanks for sharing and I'm glad to hear you and your husband are ok. I love my dive computer and I completely trust it as far as I can throw it under water. I have a watch with a timer and depth gauge for back up. I also dive my plan and monitor my computer every few minutes as well as my watch.

You said you learn from your mistakes so you've learning experience. Good divers are always learning. The guy who runs my LDS has about 6000 dives and he told me he's still learning and always will be.
 
Once you are comfortable in an environment like whatever local diving you do it is all to easy to transfer all of that comfort to a more demanding situation. Been there, done that several times. The dives went well, I felt I had contingencies and no apprehension about making the dives but by standards they were beyond me. How many divers venture past 60 feet with OW cards and single digit dive counts? Take it as a learning that some of your diving has increased in intensity and you need to play along. It sounds like you know the rules, the game just snuck up on you.

I do have one question, if I may ask... Your husband had 6 minutes of DECO and you were clean. Did you sit out some dives to lighten your load? Different computer brands, algorithms or conservatism settings?

Making a slate part of your diving is a good thing. If you don't each have on get them and practice using them. Writing is a little tricky and you don't want to first try it in a stress situation.

Some dive computer violations are preference things. It's true that a 1 hour SI is a common recommendation but you can plan a dive with less if you can afford the letter group it puts you in. It's best to give your body that hour to recover but violation may be a strong word.

Also keep an eye out for ascent flags. Waving your computer can give you a violation in some cases even though you never changed depth.

It sounds like you may have already chided your husband for keeping the incident to himself. Making you aware would have been safer in many ways.

You have the right spirit. Learn from it and move on.

Pete
 
Fuzzmutton:
I know I'm inviting a flaming but I hope to share some experience with other newbies.

I recently got back from a dive vacation with my husband and son. I waited until I got home to download my dives onto my computer and look at them. I completely read and studied my dive computer manual when I got it but sometimes I still feel like I need the "cheat sheet" underwater, because I forget what some of the symbols mean. To make matters worse, if it does beep a warning I am unable to hear it most of the time with my 7mm hood. Sooo, like I was saying, I checked out my dives and was horrified to see that I had gotten two different violations for not enough surface interval, THEN went on to make a second deeper dive. (Yes, I know better!)

I broached the subject with my husband, who has been more laid back about reading up on diving procedures and techniques, although he does know his computer. He, to my absolute horror, sez "Yeah, my last dive ran into deco, but I didn't have enough air to stay down. I surfaced with about 6 minutes to go." HE KNEW IT AND NEVER MENTIONED IT UNTIL OUR VACATION WAS OVER!! I checked his computer, that's what happened alright. He had signal for me to look at his computer during our safety stop, I thought he was showing me his PSI, which was low. I showed him mine, which was really low too. Another error on my part was being low on air and **cough** assuming that he was doing a three minute safety stop like I was; when my 3 minutes were up I started to ascend. Big mistake, I know that now. Just because we always ascend at basically the same time I thought he would be ready and coming up. He needed me to stay down with him while he did deco, possibly air share if my gas lasted longer than his. Because I didn't stay down he just surfaced, he sez.

We have been used to mainly diving in a shallow area where it's almost impossible to get into trouble, the few boat dives we have been on have been with someone who stepped up like they were running the show and said we are going to this depth until our PSI gets to here then we surface and then we will spend this much time on surface interval. Everything done by the numbers.

Did we just forget everything we had been taught in class about the RDP, using it, planning your dive and diving your plan? Duh!:shakehead My husband and I have talked about my failure as his buddy to understand what he was trying to communicate, and of course, my surfacing without him.

Lots of stuff to think about.

I have been diving less than a year, I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and I'm willing to admit to them. The people who feel like they are perfect divers and have nothing better to do than tear newbies apart are hereby invite to visit someone else's thread otherwise I would appreciate some constructive feedback on improving my diving (and just in case someone suggests it---No, I will not take up golf instead:D )


Fuzz

TSandN, yep, I was wrong, my bad....I wrongly remembered her problem(s)...For some reason I thought she was worried about 'bustin' the tables outright, instead it was 2 (short) surface intervals & running thru a safety(deco) stop....

At least things turned out OK....She'll need to learn to watch her gauges constantly, learn better signals, & remember they are each in control of their own numbers......


Sorry Fuzzmutton for the stuff I posted earlier....Again I'm glad EVERYTHING turned out healthy......Just have better communications going UW.........
 
I might have missed this...but you said you were on a dive vacation with your husband and son. Was your son with you on this dive? What were his times.

I ask, because I dive with my sons (14 & 18), all three of us newbies. I have only dove twice without them, and I was soooooo much more relaxed, not watching out for them.
 
Fuzzmutton:
I would appreciate some constructive feedback on improving my diving (and just in case someone suggests it---No, I will not take up golf instead:D )
Tennis perhaps? Kidding aside, you probably have figured out the basics of what went wrong, but here's my impressions on a few things.

We have been used to mainly diving in a shallow area where it's almost impossible to get into trouble, the few boat dives we have been on have been with someone who stepped up like they were running the show and said we are going to this depth until our PSI gets to here then we surface and then we will spend this much time on surface interval. Everything done by the numbers.
Although you didn't explicitly say so, it sounds like you were diving as part of a group on a guided dive. It's easy to get complacent and rely upon the DM or guide to do the dive planning.

It also sounds like it is a case where you are diving in a different envirionment than before. Any big changes -- temperature, ocean vs. quarry, boat vs. shore, big tanks vs. small one, deep vs. shallow -- adds in additional risk and adds in unknowns that you have to work harder at understanding. Unfortunately, too often we don't know what it is that we don't know until it causes problems.

Did we just forget everything we had been taught in class about the RDP, using it, planning your dive and diving your plan? Duh!
In this case, it sound like you were doing something fairly close to square profile, so you should have been able to compare the dive plan to what your (and your buddy's) computer was showing for NDL at that depth. Going back and forth between the RDP and your computers isn't going to work in the real world, so you need to compare the dive plan to your computer.

If the dive plan is multilevel (E.G. "OK, we're going down to 80' for 20 minutes, then up around 50' for 15min or so, then on up to 30 or shallower for the rest of the dive") then you'll have a problem evaluating the dive unless you have done a similar series of dives in the past, or you have a fancy computer with a simulator function. Unfortunately, what your were taught in class about the RDP doesn't help much in the real world if you are doing multi-level dives. The wheel is one method to evaluate such dives --- I wouldn't call it "plan", because if it is a repetitive dive, then you don't really know what pressure group you are starting in.

In practice, I find it sufficient to see what my computer says is NDL at a couple of depths to approximate my starting pressure group, and then trace the various segments on the back of the RDP using the "zero SI method", where you treat the dive as a series of back to back dives with 0 minute surface intervals between them. Yes, it's messy and not all that accurate, but I have yet to come up with a better way to evaluate a potential dive.

In any case, you should make an attempt to evaluate the dive and determine limits rather than blindly relying upon the planning done by someone else. If you know that you will probably be hitting deco limits, then it won't come as a surprise during the dive that you are deco limited rather than gas limited.

"Yeah, my last dive ran into deco, but I didn't have enough air to stay down. I surfaced with about 6 minutes to go."
With a slow ascent and the 3 minute safety stop that you did, this means that he probably had around 10 minutes of deco obligation when starting up. Deco in and of itself is not bad. Having a deco obligation and not having the gas to meet that obligation IS bad.

More specifically, each of you should have enough gas to support both of you through the entire required decompression period. The most basic underlying rule about gas planning is that each diver, at any point in the dive, should have enough gas for both divers to safely abort the dive. This is so that a complete tank or regulator failure of one diver still leaves the buddy team with enough gas for a safe abort.

Part of your diving planning is figuring out the minimum pressure you will have before starting the ascent. If this minimum pressure, often called "rock bottom" was based upon the assumption of no deco obligation, then going into deco will cause you to go beyond safe gas limits.

Obviously, going into deco when that was not planned shows either poor judgement or lack of awareness. The same goes for violation of agreed upon gas pressures for turning around and for ascending.

Going into deco and not letting your buddy know is a violation of buddy protocol / inconsiderate / ............ (fill in other pejorative phrase of choice).

Your doing the final ascent without acknowledgement by your husband is another basic buddy violation. A simple exchange of up signals should have been done. On his part, if he should have stayed down longer to complete a deco obligation, he should have vigorously informed you, and even grabbed you as you started to ascend without him. A simple signal usually understood even by buddies that I've just met that day on the boat is simply to move my hand back and forth horizontally, palm horizontal. Just about everyone intuitively understands that as "level off" "stay at safety stop" "I plan on staying at this depth xxx minutes" or something similar, depending upon the context of the situation.

I checked out my dives and was horrified to see that I had gotten two different violations for not enough surface interval, THEN went on to make a second deeper dive.
Were these "violations", or was this just a case of doing a dive using a Suunto computer that was showing the "attention" signal or something? A less than 1 hour SI may reduce NDLs, but it shouldn't be prohibited by your dive computer.

Don't beat up yourself or your husband too badly for the incident. You are analyzing and trying to prevent a repeat performance. We have all done stupid things. Most of us just aren't brave enough to post them in a public forum. :)

Charlie Allen
 
TSandM:
The scariest thing about the story is the lack of gas management.

Fair enough, it is scary, but equally scary is the communication issue.

Sorry, Fuzz, but you asked for advice, this needs working on. No-one should go into deco as part of a buddy team without the budy knowing.

The good news is that you seem to have acknowledged it, so all credit to you :nods:

plot:
What kind of computers? If it makes you feel better, most recreational computers are very conservative so I doubt either of you were ever in any real danger...

I'm more in danger of a flaming here than the original poster, but this is a valid point in a different scenario.

If you're aware of the conservative aspect of the computer, it could well stop you from a knee-jerk panic of "OMG I've got to do this because my computer says so!!!".

That said, I'd want to have a fair few dives under my belt than you have now before I started trying calculations like this on the fly.

The way I see it, mistakes are inevitable with the best planning but good planning reduces the frequency of mistakes, and learning from mistakes reduces the chance of similar mistakes.

Best of luck, we share a wonderful sport.
 
I know I'm inviting a flaming but...

I think whenever a post begins with this everyone should be locked out of responding until [user]TSandM[/user] does...she seems to start off a thread of balanced and positive but at the same time critical responses...sometimes when other people start off the responses it goes south real quick. :)
 

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