Vortex Incident spin off / Buddy Breathing

[jviehe]

So would having a spare air.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

LOL, I'd rather buddy breath than jump on a spare air!

 

[Hetland]

Its unneccesary to teach buddy breathing in OW class as proper planning will make it so you never have to do it.

I agree with almost everything in your post except for the quote above.

Planning, just like training will prevent or mitigate many problems, but just like you said, you can't train for every contingency. It follows that you also can't plan for every contingency.

Buddy breathing ain't rocket-science. It's one step removed from ditching and recovering your regulator. At minimum (at least in my opinion) it should be taught at depth in OW. I can see saving buddy breathing during ascent for AOW, but I could be talked into either.

 

[crd_kats]

No one as yet has explained how they were taught or the "right" way to buddy breathe.

In my YMCA OW class I was taught to hold the ooa buddy's right elbow with my left hand while he/she takes two breaths, blows a small stream of bubbles while I take I take two breaths and so on...

Is the curriculum similar within other agencies?

 

[jviehe]

I agree with almost everything in your post except for the quote above.

Planning, just like training will prevent or mitigate many problems, but just like you said, you can't train for every contingency. It follows that you also can't plan for every contingency.

Buddy breathing ain't rocket-science. It's one step removed from ditching and recovering your regulator. At minimum (at least in my opinion) it should be taught at depth in OW. I can see saving buddy breathing during ascent for AOW, but I could be talked into either.

Buddy breathing is essentially a backup to user error. Teach them not to error and you dont need buddy breathing. If someone has to buddy breather theyve already screwed up many things, possibly including not having a buddy, not monitoring their air, not diving with a buddy with a working alternate, not maintaining their own gear, and/or not being within range of the surface to CESA. We might as well teach the, to breathe out their BC, just in case.

As you say, its pretty easy in theory, so leave it up to the diver to decide if they need to know it. I dont think I do, or my students do, or my buddies do.

 

[TechBlue]

Its unneccesary to teach buddy breathing in OW class as proper planning will make it so you never have to do it. Of course, they can learn it on their own if they want and its pretty obvious how it works. The time would be better spent teaching them how not to run out of air, and the better options they have were something unplanned to have happened. And of course to work on bouyancy.

In the example above we would have to beleive that its possible two divers are diving together, and that at the same time the sidemount diver loses a reg, another diver loses their air as well. Possible yes. Probable no. If you teach according to everything that might happen, it would no longer be practical to dive.

Of course there is no excuse for running out of air in most recreational dives but it still happens.
Everything comes down to lawsuits, HTF could you be sued for trying to save somebodies life?? In resort diving I have seen many a diver complete their dives continiously breathing of the DM's safe second these same divers of course never knew how much weight they needed or how to set up their gear but they were certified OW and AOW the skill needs to be taught.

 

[Zieg]

Buddy breathing is essentially a backup to user error. Teach them not to error and you dont need buddy breathing. If someone has to buddy breather theyve already screwed up many things, possibly including not having a buddy, not monitoring their air, not diving with a buddy with a working alternate, not maintaining their own gear, and/or not being within range of the surface to CESA. We might as well teach the, to breathe out their BC, just in case.

As you say, its pretty easy in theory, so leave it up to the diver to decide if they need to know it. I dont think I do, or my students do, or my buddies do.

I agree, teach them not to error, but everything you listed above happens, more often than they should. I'd say not monitoring their air is probably the biggest error that occurs. I personally consider buddy breathing another "tool in the bag".

 

[Hetland]

Buddy breathing is essentially a backup to user
error.

Off the top of my head I can think of two reasons for catastrophic
first-stage failure: 1. mechanical first-stage failure 2. clogged tank
valve stem. While these are probably pretty rare, they can both happen
through no fault of the operator, as most operators trust their LDS to
properly clean and inspect their bottles, and most shops are not
expected to do xrays and metallurgical surveys during reg service.

This also assumes that every diver within swim distance is a flawless
diver with flawless equipment. Equipment can fail even after careful and
regular inspection. Instead of trusting your training, you are trusting
your eyesight, and the manufacturing prowess of some seven year old in
china that's just worked a 14 hour shift without his morning coffee and
smoke. I'm saying: "be prepared because even perfect $h!t fails once in
a while".

Teach them not to error and you dont need buddy
breathing.

Crazy talk. Why bother having a octo or air integrated inflator then? If
I was never taught to replace my mask underwater would I never lose my mask?

If someone has to buddy breather they've already
screwed up many things, possibly including not having a buddy, not
monitoring their air, not diving with a buddy with a working alternate,
not maintaining their own gear, and/or not being within range of the
surface to CESA.

Yes, they COULD have screwed up many things, or maybe just one, or maybe
some poor guy just happened to swim up with a problem, and that's when
your octo takes a dump, or a mouthpiece comes loose.

We might as well teach the, to breathe out their BC, just in case.

Not sure the safest way to teach breathing a mix lower than 21%, but
I've mentally drilled myself on how to do it if the need arises. It's
better than trying to filter the O2 from seawater.

As you say, its pretty easy in theory, so leave it up to the diver to
decide if they need to know it. I dont think I do, or my students do, or
my buddies do.

I'd want everyone to know how to do it. The more prepared you are when
poo-choo train derails, the better your chances.

 

[jviehe]

You guys are really stuck in 1970. Dont know why i bother.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

You guys are really stuck in 1970. Dont know why i bother.

Me either. I sure can't think of one good reason why an instructor would ever want to give student all of the available tools for just in case. You still teach CESA as a last resort......................octo sure ain't helping in that case. Planning ain't either. Buddy breathing sucks for sure but it is still a tool in the bag just in case.

I have seen extruded o rings, burst disks go, high pressure seats burst, hoses pop.....................all with experienced tech divers who had good, and properly serviced equipment. The diving environment, and outsaide temperatures can have a lot to do with equipment and unlikely failures.

Sheck Exley wrote the way he handled each dive he undertook, was to imagine everything that monster could do to him and have a plan for each of those things (paraphrased).

Closed mindedness (is that a word?) is a huge danger in this fun sport. Don't let yourself be caught in a state of complacency. As in my job, complacency will get you killed.