Vomiting UW question

[boulderjohn]

I am a pretty experienced diver who does not get flummoxed by stressed situations, which I have to admit are pretty rare. A couple years ago I was in a task loaded situation that included frequent in-and-outs with the regulator. (Those details don't matter.) I was in shallow water--not much more than 30 feet. Somehow in that process I inhaled some water just prior to putting the regulator back in. Not much, but it was enough. I had the regulator in a second or two later, but I was gagging and couldn't inhale properly. It took me 10-15 seconds to be able to breathe normally again. It was NOT fun. There were several divers with me, and I stayed in control enough that none knew what was happening. I think a lot of divers would have panicked.

IMO, it is a good idea to keep a regulator in the mouth as much as possible in any kind of a stressful situation. In the case of vomiting, a few seconds later you should be able to do whatever you need to do to clean up in perfect safety.

 

[Kimela]

laryngospasm

Thank you. I've felt what that feels like but it's good to have a word for it.

 

[tursiops]

I've thrown up a LOT underwater, sometimes because of breakfast, sometimes because of surge and trying to work near the bottom, whatever.
I'd loing ago heard to keep the reg in; seems to work well.
Since my primary 2nd and my alternate are identical, just that one is on a 36-inch hose under my arm and the other on a short hose and necklaced, it make no difference which I gum up. but the one on the longer hose is easier to get at and clean up while swimming around.
I've never experienced a problem with the barfing or the cleaning afterward, and actually have no memory of any involuntary or otherwise breathing in after the vomiting. It just all seems to work OK.
The fish around me love it.

NOTE: I did a word search for barf, vomit, regurgitate, retch, and "throw up" in the USN Dive Manual V.7; nothing relevant.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I've barfed uw only twice, to the best of my recollection. It wasn't hurling and was just a bit of acid and perhaps a bit of breakfast? Went quite easily through my reg. But that's not my real story. Cuz a bit of regurgitation, isn't much of a deal.

I have hurled on land, due to food poisoning or um, uh, celebrating a bit too much.

And if "hurling" happened underwater, there is no way that I wouldn't have an involuntary intake, preferably of air from my reg.

Don't take it out of your mouth.

Chew your food.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've thrown up a LOT underwater, sometimes because of breakfast, sometimes because of surge and trying to work near the bottom, whatever.
I'd loing ago heard to keep the reg in; seems to work well.
Since my primary 2nd and my alternate are identical, just that one is on a 36-inch hose under my arm and the other on a short hose and necklaced, it make no difference which I gum up. but the one on the longer hose is easier to get at and clean up while swimming around.
I've never experienced a problem with the barfing or the cleaning afterward, and actually have no memory of any involuntary or otherwise breathing in after the vomiting. It just all seems to work OK.
The fish around me love it.

NOTE: I did a word search for barf, vomit, regurgitate, retch, and "throw up" in the USN Dive Manual V.7; nothing relevant.

I read that it's called vomiting if it's unavoidable (you have no choice, it's happening), but regurgitating if you do it on purpose. As I mentioned I don't recall vommitting (damn, can't get the right spelling) for about 40 years. I was however recovering from an operation 2 years ago and had a blockage, causing me to have a build up into my chest causing pain every 5 hours. So I "regurgitated" to alleviate it.
Now, back to supper.

 

[Hojo in SC]

Unless it is a mild case, whenever I've thrown up (never under water) it was so violent that sucking in air wasn't on my mind, it just happens. With that in mind, I think it would be best to keep the regulator in and immediately go to the octo.

 

[Captain Tim]

Yes it is possible, but it takes a great deal of awareness, concentration, and discipline.

The risk of aspirating acidic acidic fluids and solids is a very real possibility when barfing into a regulator, or worse, using a FFM (Full Face Mask) and/or rebreather.



Probably true for the vast majority of recreational divers. However there is still substantial risk as evidenced by an accident that happened aboard the Monterey Express. @Captain Tim told me about a diver who barfed in his regulator and aspirated some chucks, which blocked his airway. He was on the bottom and couldn't inhale or exhale. He was forced to make the conscious decision to embolize himself. Fortunately he surfaced very close to the boat off Cannery Row (which is pretty close to the harbor) and the DM got him onboard. Amazingly he survived. Maybe Tim can tell us how they got is airway open and to the hospital before it was too late. For that matter, what did he do with the divers that were still in the water? He probably told me but forgot.

This was a fairly long running discussion when the Navy first started using FFMs with demand regulators, at least on the dive system I was on. All the Navy FFMs before the late 1960s were freeflow only so the solution was simpler. Did the subject come up in your training?

The procedure that the Master Divers came up with for us was to look face-down, slide the FFM up to expose your mouth, barf, slide the mask back down, and push the purge or open the free-flow valve. One guy actually did it during a testing/training dive, and after a night of excessive celebration. He didn't have time to warn topside verbally over the comms but did have the presence of mind to pull off the procedure. There was still a lot of coughing in the mask but no chocking.

After hearing Captain Tim's story and taking the above experiences into consideration I decided to modify the procedure for Scuba:

• I went horizontal on a sand bottom in water shallow enough to stand up in.
• I removed the regulator, pressed the mouthpiece against my right cheek (mouthpiece up), and with a finger on the purge button
• I did my best to simulate projectile vomiting by forcefully exhaling as deeply as I could
• I pressed the purge and shoved the regulator in my mouth, still face down, and delaying inhaling long enough to be confident that most of the water was out of my mouth and regulator.

The basic idea is to take the best of the "take it out" versus the "barf in regulator" arguments. At least aspirating a little seawater is less caustic and can't block your airway. HOWEVER, I probably wouldn't recommend it to an new diver or someone who hasn't practiced it. Either way, it could get dangerous pretty fast.

I don't recall any "barfing on Scuba" training in Navy Scuba school, probably because there weren't many good options on double hose regulators... no purge/freeflow option beyond laying on your back.

A diver did asperate chunks of his vomit during the 2nd dive at around 60 to 65 feet off of Monterey. At the time he surfaced, we of course did not know the circumstances of his abrupt "frothy" arrival at the top.

Quickly to the bottom line....
Later he related to me how his airway was blocked after he inhaled a chunk of an earlier lunch and knew very quickly that the day was not going well.
No amount of purging, coughing or banging on his chest could free the blockage. He made a concious decdion to make for the surface when he felt it was as bad as it was going to get .and hoped that someone was watching.
He passed out somehwere in the water column and when he broke the surface, the event was easily observed by several on the boat and as I recall a diver or 2 who had surfaced near him.
Rescue asset was Deployed, diver recall siren, Calls to USCG and when all were accounted for, the vessel made way to the harbor. Thankfully that was only 20 to 30 minutes from the start of the event.
All ended well in this particular case but from that moment on when I would hear an instructor make mention oif "just blow it thru you regulator" ..it is time to note this event to the instructor off to the side.

Absolutely! That why it is important to be able to rapidly replace the regulator and press the purge button. Thinking back to my few projectile vomiting experiences, I could hold my breath for a few more seconds but could not exhale any more.

Edit: Looks like multiple simulposts.

 

[chillyinCanada]

A diver did asperate chunks of his vomit during the 2nd dive at around 60 to 65 feet off of Monterey. At the time he surfaced, we of course did not know the circumstances of his abrupt "frothy" arrival at the top.

Quickly to the bottom line....
Later he related to me how his airway was blocked after he inhaled a chunk of an earlier lunch and knew very quickly that the day was not going well.
No amount of purging, coughing or banging on his chest could free the blockage. He made a concious decdion to make for the surface when he felt it was as bad as it was going to get .and hoped that someone was watching.
He passed out somehwere in the water column and when he broke the surface, the event was easily observed by several on the boat and as I recall a diver or 2 who had surfaced near him.
Rescue asset was Deployed, diver recall siren, Calls to USCG and when all were accounted for, the vessel made way to the harbor. Thankfully that was only 20 to 30 minutes from the start of the event.
All ended well in this particular case but from that moment on when I would hear an instructor make mention oif "just blow it thru you regulator" ..it is time to note this event to the instructor off to the side.

Chew your food thoroughly, just as mother told you.

Don't wolf down your food, especially if there's a chance of woofing it up later.

Geez, even above water and as a kid, whiners out the nose, just very unpleasant.

Chew your food.

 

[TMHeimer]

A diver did asperate chunks of his vomit during the 2nd dive at around 60 to 65 feet off of Monterey. At the time he surfaced, we of course did not know the circumstances of his abrupt "frothy" arrival at the top.

Quickly to the bottom line....
Later he related to me how his airway was blocked after he inhaled a chunk of an earlier lunch and knew very quickly that the day was not going well.
No amount of purging, coughing or banging on his chest could free the blockage. He made a concious decdion to make for the surface when he felt it was as bad as it was going to get .and hoped that someone was watching.
He passed out somehwere in the water column and when he broke the surface, the event was easily observed by several on the boat and as I recall a diver or 2 who had surfaced near him.
Rescue asset was Deployed, diver recall siren, Calls to USCG and when all were accounted for, the vessel made way to the harbor. Thankfully that was only 20 to 30 minutes from the start of the event.
All ended well in this particular case but from that moment on when I would hear an instructor make mention oif "just blow it thru you regulator" ..it is time to note this event to the instructor off to the side.

You know, I was telling my (non-diver) wife about this this thread today and she thought it may not be so good an idea to inhale through the reg if there are chunks in there. This is something I didn't give a lot of thought to, having read so much about keeping the reg in to prevent inhaling water & drowning. I guess there are other risks too.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Divers vomit in their regs lots more and carry on than do a very few individuals then get a chunk stuck.

Chew your food. Vomit through your reg, keep reg in your mouth, purge purge purge

Change 2nds when episode is ended. Clean up as required. Remain calm.

Chew your food