Voluntary Environmentally Sustainable Diving Standards

[Thalassamania]

Here are the current voting and comment results as of May 12th, 2009 for West Hawaii’s SCUBA and Snorkeling voluntary standards.

Comment period ends on May 20th 2009

When commenting, I know it takes a lot of time to go through these but please make all comments for this draft on THAT draft. Each draft is completed individually, and if it says “same as before, or same on wildlife interactions” your comments are not linked past the site and it is hard to insure your comment is reflected. Make sure you are heard, write it out each time.

If you have not voted yet, please do so on the website at:

SCUBA and Snorkeling WHST 4

If you have any problems, or would like to add comments after your original comments please call or email me!!

Kara Osada-D’Avella
West Hawaii Field Coordinator Kona
Coral Reef Alliance
Kara@Coral.org

 

[Black_3000psi]

im sure towing a flag from a scooter would be a bit of a problem. so your choice is fun over safety. thats "your" choice. I dont care how you do things around "here" in fact im not impressed with how things are done here at all. as for the rest of what your saying well the bottom line is simple: I dont care what anyone elses feelings are on the matter. I am not that individual that makes choices based on what other people think say or do. I wear gloves when I dive. I will continue to wear gloves when I dive. and as long as that paper continues to support what I consider to be an unsafe practice I will not support it in any shape form or fashion. is that plain enough english for you? laws of averages tell me that if people continue to tie off dive flags go do their dive then return to the flag eventually something will go wrong. personally I hate towing that float but have on many drift dives and shore dives. and i was glad when we had an occational dmc to do the honors. and shore diving its even worse. but I choose to do it right rather than to do it easy.everyone is responsible for their own actions but when you or me or anyone elses actions may affect the lives of others then we need to make sure we are making the right choice for the right reasons. Im sure you may have done it thousands of times and had a good time. your ok with it the people you are diving are ok with it. I am not ok with it so I dont do it.

oblivious: now theres a sexy word. hmmm can i use it in a sentence? oblivious, I am amazed at how oblivious some people are to safe diving practices. oblivious.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Oblivious; I must be oblivious to all the deaths/injuries in Hawaii due to tying off the flag. Oblivious

 

[Black_3000psi]

well that makes perfect sense to me; as long as nobody gets hurt its ok. and it fits right in with everything else that goes on around the islands. allow me to point out a few "facts" for all you padi professionals that like to leave that flag safely secured while doing your dive. as a padi professional you are expected to practice safe dive habits. you are also expected to stay within legal parameters. state law requires a diver to be within 150 feet of that flag (or is it 100) tying the flag then going on the dive does not seem a logical step in that direction. I dont think any dive stays withing those guidelines on the basis of a secured dive flag. padi is in the habit of representing dive ops when something goes wrong, only if they were diving within all above guidelines. so should something happen, when padi sends their investigator and he or she discovers that there were unsafe practices taking place you are on your own. secondly when you go to renew your insurance, well good luck with that one.
third if im someone looking to go diving and i read this thread you can bet your last dollar I aint going with you. how many people do you suppose have to get hurt or die before people get the message? so far this year one diver looks to have been run over by a boat. no dive flag was ever mentioned and all the people I talked to indicated that there was'nt one. yes it was a spearfisheman but whats the big difference. scuba divers pop up for all kinds of different reasons. if it can happen to a free diver it can happen to one of us. and yes even with the flag it can still happen. but i like my chances better with the flag. but thats just me. I personally am not in the habit of gambling with other peoples safety. I will leave that to others.

 

[KrisB]

state law requires a diver to be within 150 feet of that flag (or is it 100)

Read the law again.

A diver must SURFACE within 100' of the flag, except in case of emergency.

It is specifically written that there is no sub-surface distance limitation.

 

[Black_3000psi]

thats true kris there is no stipulated sub surface set standard. the set standard is implyed. it is implyed that no matter where the diver is on the dive that diver, Should they have to surface they will be within the very small but oh so far 100 feet. for a scuba diver if the need to surface (for any number of reasons) arises their thougts are not on trying to locate a dive flag thats somewhere behind them. hopefully they are looking up and exhaling and praying that theres no boat on that line of path. in the mean time a boats cruising above. it the capt. sees the dive bouy/flag so he veres off. putting some distance between his boat and the flag. the only problem here is the divers could pop up anywhere the flag is safely secured to the bottom the dive is into its 20th minute is there even a small chance that they are within 100 feet of that flag? of course not. its like doing your taxes every year people try to milk it for everything they can. and they get away for years and years. some may get away with it all their lives. but for the unfortunate few its audit time. the only difference here is most people will survive the audit. not many people survive a sudden introduction to boat a props. all because someone is too lazy to pull the float plz tell me what is the name of your dive op. i dont want to make the mistake of diving with you or sending anyone to dive with you. One thing is for sure you cant say you didnt know cause this forum will always be living proof that you did know the risk and you elected to ignore those risk. for the sake of the people you are diving I hope we never have to have an I told you so thread.

Common sense:Common sense tell "Me" that if I secure my flag while leading a dive its a matter of minutes before we are more than 100 feet away. common sense tells Me that while if a emergency arises and someone needs to surface I will have a diver on the top with no marker to help them ward off any approaching boats. common sense tell me that I can alleviate the above worries by towing the dive flag. for me its all about the practical application of common sense that I make decisions with.

I am oblivious of any other way of doing things. logic is my guide thru this wreched place.

 

[KrisB]

You're a funny character.

The underwater distance is specified. They SPECIFICALLY say that there is no underwater distance limit in the HRS Dive Flag Law.

Boat captains DO NOT necessarily veer off a dive flag. That is a separate issue, but the point remains -- a dive flag DOES NOT, in itself, protect a diver. You make it sound as though this is a magic forcefield that prevents boats from passing overhead... that's not the case.

Furthermore, let's say you're doing a deeper dive (75' would work for this example). Even a simple 2x scope has 150' of line paid out... so an emergency surfacing directly above where the flag is being towed from would put you 129' away from the flag. That's 29' beyond what a boat driver (I say driver because there are a lot of recreational users who are not captains) MAY be observing for a no-drive distance.

Ultimately, the thing we can learn best from this and the dive-flag-awareness "near-misses" stories is that the flag really doesn't make that much of a difference...

 

[Black_3000psi]

it wont help at all if it is not there. period.

 

[KrisB]

And common sense would say that if something is in the water that you don't recognize, you either approach it VERY slowly (i.e. slow-no-wake), or avoid at a great distance.

Unfortunately, it's been proven time and again that common sense is not all that common -- given the number of boats and jetskis that pass near dive flags and borderline-shallow reef on a regular basis.

 

[Black_3000psi]

i wonder if the spearfisherman that was killed on the big Island in april by boat running him over would think im funny had he survived. I wonder if his wife that had to return home alone thinks im funny. he didnt have a dive flag with him either. its sad that nothing has been learned from this. if thats what make me funny then im a funny character. and one thing i can agree with you on is some boats have no idea or dont care about the dive flag which should be reason enough to push the dive flag awareness and to push for some form of mandatory boat operator safety course and push for stronger enforcement. that would be the logical course but the dive community on the islands have shown no intrest in that which would ultimately make the islands safer place to dive. how funny is that. for now im thru with the subject." beam me up scotty there is no intelligent life down here."