Virginia killings Moderation decisions.

[Kim]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post2854912 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_2854912>This is indeed a tragedy.

The staff of www.ScubaBoard.com wish to extend their thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families and of course to the entire staff and student body of Virginia Tech. Words cannot express the outrage or the loss we feel at this time.

To those whose posts were deleted, this is not a part of the OP, nor is it within the scope of this forum to discuss such political ideologies. If you wish to continue this discussion please find an appropriate venue for it. If you wish to lodge a protest or discuss this decision, please do so in site support or through PMs to any moderator. Crying foul when the rules are being enforced is so second grade. References to any nationality are more than objectionable and simply not allowed here, whether it be to Americans, Chineese, Korean or (insert YOUR nationality here). The method for dealing with any such post is not retaliation, but by using the "report bad post" in the bottom left of each and every post.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
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If you don't want to allow the full discussion of contributing causes to an event, then why allow any discussion of the event at all.

There WAS a lot of politics brought into that thread that was quite rightly removed. There was also a lot of stuff that was pure discussion of the facts, as they are being reported on every major news channel on the planet. The guy used a gun to kill a lot of people. He killed a lot more people using a gun than he could have done otherwise. What has that got to do with politics?

If you need to find causes for why something happened then a little more openness and honesty is required than is being permitted here. Right now all that you are doing is imposing your own beliefs and values on everyone else - and using the inherent power of board ownership to do it. Again - if you don't want the discussion on the board then pull the thread completely - don't allow it to pretend to exist in a neutered fashion. That doesn't help anyone.

People in different societies to you don't have to put up with this sort of tragedy on such an awfully regular basis. If you really don't want to allow a discussion of why not by declaring it "politics" then I don't think you know what the word "denial" means. No one is saying that they have ALL the answers here - that's why such a discussion could be useful. It's totally pointless though if it's censored to exclude certain of the basic facts.

This is singularly the worst Moderator (well......Management) decision that I've ever seen on the board. With the post deletions that were made someone didn't even follow the "house rules", which resulted in me accusing two Moderators of stuff they had nothing to do with - simply because they made the mod posts that occured simultaneously. I thought the whole idea here was to keep people informed of what was going on? Letting others take the blame for your actions.....now....THAT'S so "second grade".
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[The Chairman]

Kim,

First off, thanks for bringing this up in the correct forum. So many of the posts removed were simply gripes because the GC people think we are AGC and visa versa.

Simply put, we don't allow national politics to rage on this board: it gets people at each other's throats. Whether it's Japanese whaling or American Gun Control policies, once you introduce jingoism into the discussion, we are going to remove it.

To set the story straight, there have been a half a dozen moderators with diverse views looking over that thread. If there was ANY nationalistic or ideological statements, then they were pulled: whether you were FOR or AGAINST Gun Control. While there might be a ton of second guessing as to our motives etc (nothing like the Admins at VT are going through), we are going to continue to keep this as friendly of a forum that we can.

After all, this IS ScubaBoard... not GunControlBoard or even AntiGunControlBoard. We are not set up to discuss these political hot potatoes philosophically nor do we have enough man power to allowe such an unfettered discussion. Of course, there will be some non diving threads and we have a place for them. But unless the political issue is CLEARLY Scuba/Dive related, we don't need to silt out our forum discussing things that are obviously out of our charter. Even then we don't need to single out any ethnic or national group.

For those who may see something that we have missed in this regard, please use the "Report Bad Post" button in the lower left of every post. It's a big board, and sometimes we miss seeing a particular post or we don't understand some innuendo. This is YOUR CHANCE to make this a friendlier place and let us know about these posts. Be explicit about the problem. Saying things like "Obvious troll" doesn't help us at all if we don't understand which part of the post is so obvious to you.

 

[Kim]

Kim,

First off, thanks for bringing this up in the correct forum. So many of the posts removed were simply gripes because the GC people think we are AGC and visa versa.

Simply put, we don't allow national politics to rage on this board: it gets people at each other's throats. Whether it's Japanese whaling or American Gun Control policies, once you introduce jingoism into the discussion, we are going to remove it.

To set the story straight, there have been a half a dozen moderators with diverse views looking over that thread. If there was ANY nationalistic or ideological statements, then they were pulled: whether you were FOR or AGAINST Gun Control. While there might be a ton of second guessing as to our motives etc (nothing like the Admins at VT are going through), we are going to continue to keep this as friendly of a forum that we can.

After all, this IS ScubaBoard... not GunControlBoard or even AntiGunControlBoard. We are not set up to discuss these political hot potatoes philosophically nor do we have enough man power to allowe such an unfettered discussion. Of course, there will be some non diving threads and we have a place for them. But unless the political issue is CLEARLY Scuba/Dive related, we don't need to silt out our forum discussing things that are obviously out of our charter. Even then we don't need to single out any ethnic or national group.

For those who may have seen something that we have missed in this regard, please use the "Report Bad Post" button in the lower right of every post. It's a big board, and sometimes we miss seeing a particular post or we don't understand some innuendo. This is YOUR CHANCE to make this a friendlier place and let us know about these posts. Be explicit about the problem. Saying things like "Obvious troll" doesn't help us at all if we don't understand which part of the post is so obvious to you.

Then why not simply remove the whole thread as soon as it got political the first time?
If it's not for the board then it's not. The first clean up and a statement like you made above (of sympathy), would have done it. My point is that then leaving it open purely invites the discussion of the "Hows" & "Whys" etc and then censoring part of the answers just does real damage. Believe it or not....we people outside of the States don't see this as a political issue at all. We just see......guns kill people so make sure the wrong people don't get them if you can. Of course that isn't perfect...what is? Offering it as a viewpoint as a potential solution/part solution to the causes of a horrific tragedy - one that most societies in the world accept quite willingly - is just part of the fundamental discussion. Without that there's no point in talking about it at all. Arm all the kids so they can defend themselves??? You've got to be kidding me.

Still - it's not MY culture so in the end do what you like....the same reason I defend the Japanese right to catch whales. After all...it's YOUR kids dying here so any political law changing is down to you...not me. I agree with you about the nationality/racist stuff though. When I originally objected to it (when it was still "Chinese") I got told that it was ME bringing racism into it. It's got nothing to do with it. Someone killed 33 kids...what does it matter where they came from? My point is simply that without a gun they couldn't have done it. That's not a political statement. As far as I can see it wasn't against the TOS to say that. If it was......then the whole thread shouldn't have been allowed. (if we're aiming for any kind of consistency here).
Look.....I know this is a hot potato where you are, so if you don't want it discussed I can understand. Just please....don't neuter the damn thing but give the impression that it's really allowed.

 

[pilot fish]

We stage great tributes to victims *after* the tragedy in this Country. It is what we do best. We have not perfected the PREVENTION thing yet thouigh. That might come in a few years. One can hope. People will place flowers, light candels and sing hyms- great photo op for the networks. Little else will change.

A TV news person asked a grieving father that had just lost his daughter, " how are you feeling? This has to be very difficult for you?" Those are penitrating questions. Outstanding!

 

[pilot fish]

If a 23 year old resident alien, OR ANYONE, goes into a gun shop to buy a hand gun, is it too much to ask " what do you need this for?" What is the purpose of a hand gun; what is it designed for? What animal, aside from humans, are hunted with a semi-automatic, or AUTOMATIC weapon?

Don't forget the flowers and candles. OK, let's all sing together " cum baya "

 

[Missdirected]

If a 23 year old resident alien, OR ANYONE, goes into a gun shop to buy a hand gun, is it too much to ask " what do you need this for?" What is the purpose of a hand gun; what is it designed for? What animal, aside from humans, are hunted with a semi-automatic, or AUTOMATIC weapon?

Don't forget the flowers and candles. OK, let's all sing together " cum baya "

fftopic: This isn't what is being discussed here.

 

[DennisS]

google>groups>rec.scuba-thats the place for gun control issues, a lively unmoderated venue where you can express you views, pro and con

 

[Walter]

But unless the political issue is CLEARLY Scuba/Dive related, we don't need to silt out our forum discussing things that are obviously out of our charter.

Pete, I'm curious. Will the TOS be updated to indicate political discussions that are diving related are now allowed?

 

[ReefHound]

I think Kim is right (didn't think I'd ever say that). This issue is inherently political, to try and discuss it without discussing the political issues of what could have been done and what should be done to prevent it is a farce. It's ignoring the #800 pound gorilla, like trying to discuss war without mentioning casualties. The thread should simply be removed completely if it cannot involve politics. Ultimately, most issues lead back to politics.

That said, I think SB needs a political opt-in subforum. Basic rules governing profanity, personal attacks, etc. will cover most problems. Maybe add a rule so members don't repeat the same things over and over. Of course, your response will be that SB is not about politics and there are better forums for that subject. But that holds true for many other subjects regularly discussed here as well. There are other forums to discuss sports or traffic or the weather or tell jokes, etc. We do those things here because it is about the PEOPLE. It's not what we are discussing but who we are discussing them with. Even though they are wrong, I want to hear the views of guys like Kim and H2Andy. I would rather discuss politics with them than with somebody in some alt.politics newsgroup.

 

[Cacia]

I want to hear the views of guys like Kim and H2Andy. I would rather discuss politics with them than with somebody in some alt.politics newsgroup.

yea...thats the problem. It's not what we are discussing but who we are discussing them with.

wish we had a seperate SB forum, like a backstreet alley we could duck into.