VIP stickers

[Scared Silly]

According to the CGA and DOT in the US, Visuals are only required with hydro every 5 years and that is by CGA/DOT guidelines and done by the certified hydro tech. The annual VIP stuff is a dive shop/dive industry thing and is *not* required by law. Seeing as how the inspection is not required by any law, how is liability increased? Isn't the defense simply "My tank met *ALL* CGA standards and is proven with the current hydro stamp". Since there isn't any other recognized standard, what standard can be used to compare it to?

Now here is a fun game to play. Take a cylinder that has a hydro stamp that is less than one year but NO visual sticker into your local shop. I bet more times than not the shop will refuse to fill the cylinder cause it does have the "magic" sticker on it. As part of the hydro cylinders are given a visual. And the CGA standards they follow are the same ones that PSI and others follow. So the hydro stamp is the visual for the first year.

As for the hydro - they are required in commerce. No commerce no requirement. For instance, the storage bank at our university is a set of cylinders that I have been told date from the 50s (No one gets down there unless needed). They have never been hydro'd since they were installed.

The VIPs are an industry "practice". But the practice seems pretty loose to me. By that I mean who is doing them and to what standard. It is my understanding that at this point the only inspection program that is mentioned in the CGA regs is PSI's program. That is not to say it is the only program that should be as I am sure there are others that are just as rigorous but this is the program I am most familar with.

I do my own inspections as well as for my friends. I started because of the cost and after I how saw they were done. My old shop used to charge a minimal $5 for an AL cylinder. But after they closed down it was then $15 at anther shop. With 4-6 cylinders a year it got expensive.

I can understand other shop questioning "generic" VIP stickers as the scuba industry had kinda screwed themselves.

 

[Thalassamania]

As for the hydro - they are required in commerce.

Only in inter-state commerce.

 

[Leadking]

As for the hydro - they are required in commerce. No commerce no requirement. For instance, the storage bank at our university is a set of cylinders that I have been told date from the 50s (No one gets down there unless needed). They have never been hydro'd since they were installed.

That is because they're PERMANETLY installed. I am willing to bet they fall under your state's boiler catagory and need to be inspected by the pressure vessel and boiler inspection department. Further they are more than likely ASME cylinders that do not require a hydro. In our facility even our light duty air compressor tanks need to be licensed and inspected at 125 psi.

 

[ppo2_diver]

It is my understanding that at this point the only inspection program that is mentioned in the CGA regs is PSI's program.

Have you seen this? I have never seen anything in the CGA or DOT docs that specify PSI. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

 

[Thalassamania]

That is because they're PERMANETLY installed. I am willing to bet they fall under your state's boiler catagory and need to be inspected by the pressure vessel and boiler inspection department. Further they are more than likely ASME cylinders that do not require a hydro. In our facility even our light duty air compressor tanks need to be licensed and inspected at 125 psi.

Doubtful that they're ASME, and as a State institution (if that's the likely case) he likely enjoys sovereign immunity from things such as town building codes and even state boiler inspectors.

 

[Leadking]

Doubtful that they're ASME, and as a State institution (if that's the likely case) he likely enjoys sovereign immunity from things such as town building codes and even state boiler inspectors.

Even with immunity the public institutions will find some pretty bad press if they blow someone up. Most public institutions I deal with hold themselves to an even higher standard safety wise than the private sector-they have our tax dollars to allow them to do it.

 

[Thalassamania]

Even with immunity the public institutions will find some pretty bad press if they blow someone up. Most public institutions I deal with hold themselves to an even higher standard safety wise than the private sector-they have our tax dollars to allow them to do it.

We're not discussing what should be done, that's pretty clear and immutable, I thought we were discussing the LEGAL requirements (of which I believe there are none unless the cylinder is tranported across state lines).

 

[in_cavediver]

Even with immunity the public institutions will find some pretty bad press if they blow someone up. Most public institutions I deal with hold themselves to an even higher standard safety wise than the private sector-they have our tax dollars to allow them to do it.

Kinda reminds me of a situation several years ago. The campus safety group did an annual inspection but with a new inspector. The quote was this "we can work with you a bit when its only your building your going to blow up. We have to draw the line when its several of the building around you!". This was in reference to the flame diagnostics lab's gas storage and air handling equipment. (30 T bottles of Flammables and O2 stored together in a basement hallway)

The good news is that Universities do try to hold themselves to a higher level. The bad news is that they have faculty who want to be 'grandfathered' in with thier practices and its a tug of war as to who wins sometimes.

 

[Thalassamania]

The good news is that Universities do try to hold themselves to a higher level. The bad news is that they have faculty who want to be 'grandfathered' in with thier practices and its a tug of war as to who wins sometimes.

Sounds to me that you too have served on the Safety Committee.