VIP stickers

[ppo2_diver]

Heck, I've seen dive store owners just slap a sticker on there and not even open the tank.

The CGA makes the recommendation for the inspection procedures. Those are defendable in court. There is no "industry" standard for scuba cylinder inspections. Bill High confirmed this when I met with him 2 weeks ago. PSI and TDI follow the CGA recommendations. I cannot speak of the other agencies. But many home inspectors who created their own stickers were not able to defend their "standards" in court and lost. Your stickers should state that the insepction meets or exceeds CGA standards. I have used stickers from PADI, TDI, PSI, and now GUE. All say the same thing.

Like everyone else has said, get the training and stay current.

 

[Walter]

And is it any different, in most cases, for the wrench jocky who is overtightening your regulator? The more I think about it the more I like the DTI thing.

No, it's not. You'll like Rudy too.

 

[in_cavediver]

I will throw in one last tidbit/question.

According to the CGA and DOT in the US, Visuals are only required with hydro every 5 years and that is by CGA/DOT guidelines and done by the certified hydro tech. The annual VIP stuff is a dive shop/dive industry thing and is *not* required by law. Seeing as how the inspection is not required by any law, how is liability increased? Isn't the defense simply "My tank met *ALL* CGA standards and is proven with the current hydro stamp". Since there isn't any other recognized standard, what standard can be used to compare it to?

 

[Web Monkey]

Where do the dive shops get their VIP stickers?
What training agency qualifies a dive shop to do the VIP inspections?
The VIP stickers on most of my cylinders only give the information of a dive shop name, address, and some statement that it has been inspected. Thats it, no information as to the testing qualifications of the VIP or to what standards the test was held to. Why can't I go to the local print shop and have my own VIP stickers printed and do my own inspections?

All the stickers mean is that "I inspected this tank and on the date I did it, it was OK".

It doesn't mean that it's still OK after you used it or after someone else filled it, since it could be contaminated, so it's really just a minimum level of certification that within the past year, the shop on the sticker thought the tank was OK.

Shops will (or should) only fill it if they trust the shop that did the inspection and if they trust that you haven't contaminated the tank since then.

Stickering your own tank accomplishes nothing unless the place that does your fills trusts you.

Terry

 

[do it easy]

I will throw in one last tidbit/question.

According to the CGA and DOT in the US, Visuals are only required with hydro every 5 years and that is by CGA/DOT guidelines and done by the certified hydro tech. The annual VIP stuff is a dive shop/dive industry thing and is *not* required by law. Seeing as how the inspection is not required by any law, how is liability increased? Isn't the defense simply "My tank met *ALL* CGA standards and is proven with the current hydro stamp". Since there isn't any other recognized standard, what standard can be used to compare it to?

The lawyers might chime in here as well, but one part of the reasonably prudent person standard is custom- what everyone else is doing. Not everyone else is VIPing scuba tanks every year, but if you asked the average Joe of the street how often to VIP a scuba tank, he would probably answer every year. I think that some OW classes even teach this.

So no, it may not be CGA or DOT guidelines, but it is "industry standard."

 

[Leadking]

I just completed a 10 hour course on cylinder inspection with PSI and thought it was time well spent. I have sold over 50,000 cylinders in just the past few years and knew most of the material but wanted to make sure of everything. We do get cylinders damaged in shipping and want to make sure that if we release them to our stores as seconds that they are safe.

 

[DennisW]

Though I have great respect for Bill High and he desreves credit for putting tank inspection out there in the public I was not pushing one training program over another since I know nothing about any of the others.

Edit: I just looked Diving Technologies International up on the web, and interesting approach with members whom I know and respect, I think I'll join.

I really wasn't trying to infer that you were pushing the PSI course. Rudy (the owner of Diving Technologies International) and Bill know each other and respect each other as well. They do have a little different approach, at least I think they do based on comments from Rudy. I have not taken the PSI course. I took the DTI course because he also teaches a technician course in regulator repair and servicing. I took both courses and recommend them to anyone who is interested in how their regulators work, would like to service their own regs, what should happen during a tank inspection, and would like to inspect their own tanks. It is an investment, though and I have not paid for the class in savings. I do have much more confidence in my equipment, though.

 

[Nemrod]

The best I can tell is that the only legal requirment of tanks in commerce is the five year hydro. Privately owned and filled tanks do not have to have a hydro. The VIP has no legal requirments and is scuba industry practice.

"Practices" as in industry practices do have legal implications but still the only legally specified requiment is the hydro. Therefore aside from refusing to fill a homemade VIP tank there is nothing "legal" that can be done since there is no federal or state law requiring a VIP.

I inspect my tanks on a much more frequent basis than once every year.

N

 

[onfloat]

You can. But the sticker does NOT make the tank safe. The inspection by a qualified inspector does. PSI makes you take a refresher every few years. If you have the cert, you can just order them from your agency (PSI, IANTD, whatever).

I think you meant to put that in there.

 

[padiscubapro]

You can get trained and be authorized to sticker your cylinders and that's all fine and good.

However..... It is entirely possible that a fill station will recognize these as privately done inspections and ask if you are insured for the risks of an improper inspection. From there they can choose not to fill your cylinders and you can ponder the legal rat hole you can do down should there be an incident with a cylinder you stickered regardless of it's relevance. Just food for thought. I didn't make this up.

Pete

Pete,
I am starting tosee a trend among LDS.. Many of them will no longer fill cylinders with "generic" cylinders.. That being a decal that does not list a shop and address..