VIP for Ponies?

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L_A_S

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I'm looking to get a grey Shetland and was wondering if I could feed it caviar...

Just kidding, I was wondering whether annual VIP stickers and hydro testing every 5 years are required for 19L pony tanks. Logic would say they are since they still have 3000 psi, but I've never seen a sticker on a pony bottle. How do fillers ensure they're ok, or is it overlooked with the wee tanks (any such experiences)?
 
I have a 30cf bottle and it has a vip inspection sticker on it. I admit I am not aware of a minimum size tank that needs to be vip'ed but the attached inspection manual from Luxfer pretty much confirms it is "recommended" cylinders need to be vip'ed on a regular basis and their recommendation is every year or more frequently based on use.

DOT requires hydrostatic testing every five years so at the very least, you need to have it DOT testing every five years or less.

Tha attached manual also has some good links in the appendix.

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/downloads/docs/scubaguide.pdf
 
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If the person/operation you want to fill it (or any other scuba tank) requires it, then it is required.

I fill my own pony from larger tanks with an equalizer hose. So hydros and VIPs are up to me.
 
VIP is not needed by DOT on any tank.
Hydro is.
LDS may want VIP (money in there pocket).
There shop there rules.

Mike
 
If the person/operation you want to fill it (or any other scuba tank) requires it, then it is required.

I fill my own pony from larger tanks with an equalizer hose. So hydros and VIPs are up to me.

Uh, technically, hydros and anything else stamped on a cylinder are up to the DOT unless you never bring that pony on a road.

(just sayin', not that you would get caught for violating that...)
 
VIP is not needed by DOT on any tank.
Hydro is.
LDS may want VIP (money in there pocket).
There shop there rules.

Mike

That's not entirely correct. A visual inspection is part of the hydro process that is required by DOT. However this is only required at Hydro, which is every 5 years.

The "annual" visual is just an industry implemented thing.


In theory a recently hydro'd tank "hydro stamp" should surfice as proof of hydro and recent vis. However, dive shops don't accept that most of the time. they still want the little sticker and $10 in their pocket. In some defense of dive shops though, I've seen tanks come back from hydro that are filthy.... so it's not a bad thing to have someone else check your tank.
 
I'm wondering whether annual VIP stickers and hydro testing every 5 years are required for 19L pony tanks. ...How do fillers ensure they're ok, or is it overlooked with the wee tanks?
Yes, visual inspections are generally required by any professional dive shop fill station. Hydros every 5 years are also required.

Fillers do not know whether a scuba tank has been damaged, run over, abused, heated in a fire, or otherwise weakened unless the tanks are inspected. It is not overlooked with smaller tanks, because smaller tanks are as likely to explode under pressure as larger tanks are. Liability ensures that professional fill stations check the VIP sticker before filling any scuba tank, regardless of size. (Of course, divers who fill their own tanks using whatever means assume all the liability for doing so.)

In terms of why you may not see the VIP stickers on sling tanks, divers using deco and stage tanks sometimes put the VIP stickers on the bottom of (aluminum) tanks.

Regards,

Doc
 
Uh, technically, hydros and anything else stamped on a cylinder are up to the DOT unless you never bring that pony on a road.

(just sayin', not that you would get caught for violating that...)

As with so many GOV regs, it is not entirely clear. But this extract from the DOT reg (
(ii) No cylinder required to be retested by paragraph (e)(1)(i) of this section may be
charged or filled with a hazardous material and transported in commerce....) suggests that as long as I am not filling it and transporting it in COMMERCE, it does not apply. Elsewhere in the reg, it states that once the hydro has expired, the fill cylinder can continue in service but can not be refilled. So, I'm still not sure there would be any violation involved in my private filling and use of a cylinder with an expired hydro.

Link: http://www.c-f-c.com/gaslink/docs/dot_cylinder.htm
 
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That's not entirely correct. A visual inspection is part of the hydro process that is required by DOT. However this is only required at Hydro, which is every 5 years.

The "annual" visual is just an industry implemented thing.


In theory a recently hydro'd tank "hydro stamp" should surfice as proof of hydro and recent vis. However, dive shops don't accept that most of the time. they still want the little sticker and $10 in their pocket. In some defense of dive shops though, I've seen tanks come back from hydro that are filthy.... so it's not a bad thing to have someone else check your tank.


Many facilities that preform the DOT 5 year hydro's do nothing in regards to an annual vis as required by dive industry standards after the hydro. ALL tanks should be inspected by a trained and certf. inspector after all hydro's prior to returning them to dive service.....this is were many a tank fail the vis is after the hydro not before. All steel tanks should be cleaned after hydro and alm. should at least get a basic rinse assuming they are not being O2 cleaned then of course a proper cleaning is required for both steel/alm.. All tanks should be properly stickered after passing vis.
 
AWAP is correct, however the DOT at one point went off the deep end and decided that this definition of "transported in commerce" could be applied to any tank capable of being used in interstate commerce. So in effect, if it is portable, the DOT regs apply. What that means is that a fill station would be at risk of being cited for filling tanks that are not legal for use in interstate commerce if they filled your privately owned and locally used scuba tank that would not intentionally be used in interstate commerce.

The irony here is that you could have filled your brand new scuba tank in 1951 and still be carrying that original fill around in the back of your wet and soggy trunk cossing state lines and engaging in commerce and it would be entirely legal to do so. You don't have to drain it once the hydro expires, you just can;t get it filled again. Stupid but legal.

The other irony is that there are literally thousands of old surplus submarine ballast tanks still in service in airbanks across the country that never have to by hydro tested as they are not considered to be portable. So that same dive shop that won't fill your tanks because they lack an industry required annual VIP sticker are often filling out of an airbank that has not been inspected or tested in decades.

Welding tanks and Medical O2 tanks get used a lot and they are only subject to visual inpspections every 5 years (at the time of the hydro test.) They don't blow up due to the lack of inspection. The difference with scuba tanks goes back to the use of scuba tanks in marine environments and due to a history of smaller and or older compressors that were not as efficient at separating and removign moisture.

In general there are only 4 ways to get water in a tank:

1. Emptying the tank under water and going deeper with the purge depressed

2. Emptying the tank under water with no reg connected to the tank.

3. Filling a tank with water in the vave or in the fill whip where the pressure of the fill will blow the water into the tank.

4. Filling a tank from a faulty compressor with excessive moisture in the compressed air.

In the past all four were good reasons to require an annual VIP. Now, 1 & 2 are controllable by not filling a totaly empty tank and 3 & 4 are very unlikely to happen outside a dive shop, but are still potentially reason enough for the annual VIP.

At one point in time I was asked to look at a reg that was "malfunctioning". I could here something in the tank and when inverting the tank, I got a flood of rust covered water out of the reg when I pressed the purge. That tank had both a missing dip tube and an awful lot of water in it. A pretty good reason for an annual VIP.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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