Views on playing with or harrasing marine life

[TomR1]

I am not equating "playing with sharks" with "slavery". I am questioning your justification of "playing with sharks" on the basis that you have "done it for many years", "everybody does it", "there are fare worse things out there" or anything like that.

My 5 year old question is "Is it wrong?"

I would tell my five year old that it is wrong to pull the legs off bugs because it is cruely. It is generally unacceptable to be cruel to animals. I would tell my five year old not to write his name on a rock in the mountains because it is degrading the environment. Any five year old knows that cruelty to animals and degrading natural fragile environments is wrong.

So my question is: "What evidence can you present that playing with a shark is neither cruelty nor degrading the environment?" I ask this because my admittedly inexpert view says that it is both as is cutting up sea urchin to feed garabaldi.

You don't feel that these actions are cruel and/or hurt the environment. I am asking your basis for your belief.

Yes I know I can't stop you. Yes I know that you have been doing it for years, the the Crocodile Hunter does far worse, nature is fare crueler etc, etc, etc. All those justifications have been used for slavery as well.


I am not a five year old son.

Tom Reynolds
President, iLAN Systems Inc.
www.ilan.com

 

[gj62]

I am not equating "playing with sharks" with "slavery". I am questioning your justification of "playing with sharks" on the basis that you have "done it for many years", "everybody does it", "there are fare worse things out there" or anything like that.

I never used the first 2 arguements (though others may have). I stand by the fact that my actions as a commercial diver have far greater negative impact, but I am not being held to task for them. Frankly, I'm not justifying anything because I don't think I need to. I'm trying to understand how people can use some of the arguements they bring up by pointing out what I see as flaws in those arguments...

My 5 year old question is "Is it wrong?"

I would tell my five year old that it is wrong to pull the legs off bugs because it is cruely. It is generally unacceptable to be cruel to animals. I would tell my five year old not to write his name on a rock in the mountains because it is degrading the environment. Any five year old knows that cruelty to animals and degrading natural fragile environments is wrong.

Pull legs off bugs *may be* cruelty, but it is also a natural experimentation for young children (or else it would not be part of everyone's experience set - directly or indirectly). Let's take a mosquito. If a kid trapped one and put it in a jar - it could (a) starve, (b) die of heat/cold, (c) die of thirst, etc. Or, the kid could just swat it like most adults would do. Is the kid's approach intentional cruelty, or innocent experimentation? Does it matter to the mosquito? If the child learned from this experience, would you deny him the experience, even though the outcome for the mosquito is the same? Do you now understand why you can't apply 5-year old questions to such arguements? Or if you can, you have a view of the world that I do not think is reasonable and we have no further need to discuss anything...

As far as carving your initials on rock in the mountains, this is degrading the environment how? I admit that I wouldn't want to see it, but it sure ain't causing more erosion or harming the rock... it may be affecting *your* ability to enjoy the environment, but it is not harming a fragile ecosystem...

So my question is: "What evidence can you present that playing with a shark is neither cruelty nor degrading the environment?" I ask this because my admittedly inexpert view says that it is both as is cutting up sea urchin to feed garabaldi.

You don't feel that these actions are cruel and/or hurt the environment. I am asking your basis for your belief.

I haven't seen the shark suffer from my interaction (or hear about them "suffering" from such actions), other than to disturb their nap...

The preponderance of urchins speaks to the fact that neither my actions as a commercial diver, nor my recreational feeding of urchins to garibaldis has an impact on the urchin population.

As to whether killing the urchin is "cruel", I try to make it a quick death

I am not a five year old son.

I didn't say you were - I said your argument was that of a 5-year olds. To reduce a complex moralistic question (where there is no "right" answer) with an overly simplistic question in response is not engaging in useful discourse... I thought my previous statement made that clearer...

 

[TomR1]

I think I understand where you come from. Although I don't agree my goal was to understand, not argue or debate.

Tom

 

[jagfish]

TomR1
I admire your reply to gj62...

JAG

 

[LioKai]

A question for those that touch;
I shoot professional UW video for TV, film, and stock footage. I shoot behaviors, mating and spawning specificly. Will someone please tell me how to nudge an octopus just the right way to get it to mate? It would be most helpful if I knew a way to grab a finescale triggerfish by the tail to get it to spawn. How about poking a Lionfish to get it to hunt. I'm getting tired of being sooo patent just to get the few minutes of video that I want. (Laughing Out Loud)

Well sunshine, it cannot be done. (Although I suspect that a few folks think they can). Ignorance and arrogance are no excuse for your actions.

Do not ask "what is the harm"

Rather

"What is the help"

And I don't want to hear all the BS about "feeding the Garabaldi a few of the oceans pests" and "gas engines in a dive boat" and the like. You all know what I am talking about.

I realize that feeding a Garabaldi a few urchins is somewhat harmless on a grand scale of oceanic intrusion by humans. The real problem is the behavior that these feedings promote. Todays urchin feeders are tomorrows Angel Shark riders.

Matthew J D'Avella
Kona Hawaii

 

[archman]

Thank you Liokai. That was very well written, and straight to the point. I won't even add to it.

 

[Zippsy]

Will someone please tell me how to nudge an octopus just the right way to get it to mate?

Try a candlelight dinner first. Buy it some roses. Hold hands with it (at least one of them). Then try some gentle kisses. Good luck.

I realize that feeding a Garabaldi a few urchins is somewhat harmless on a grand scale of oceanic intrusion by humans.

On a grand scale? You're right but I bet these divers have made a difference in the life of the urchins that are cut up.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Uh, I think this horse is dead.

 

[Otter]

Uh, I think this horse is dead.

It wouldn't be harassment, it would be burial!

 

[smay28]

Uh, I think this horse is dead.

Let's put it to bed at 100 replies..