Video from a Training Dive with John Chatterton

[Scuba-74]

I used the term "propaganda" more "tongue-in-cheek" not realizing that some good folks will take as I was insulting their idol and these happy folks will get all excited about it (not that I give a rat about it). I also think that these sweet people would have gotten all bent out of shape anyways even if I had used any other term that was less dramatic, e.g., marketing, salesmanship, advertising, etc.

Now, after reading all of the comments of the faithful and believers, I think I should have used the term, "Brainwashing" for the "hero worshiping" crowd.

I am questioning and wondering if the instructor for the course were somebody else other than JC and who was less known or even an unknown person, would the fun loving good folks finding excuses for JC had the same reaction and would have worked just as hard to find this unknown instructor excuses too. I am certain if it were somebody else who wasn't a diving celebrity or luminary as is JC, these same happy folks would have sliced, diced, disemboweled and skinned this instructor alive on cyberspace and probably would have issued an international advisory against this instructor.

What is extremely dangerous here is the rationalization and "explaining away" of very poor "instructing" in certain parts of the course related to very critical and fundamental skills. I believe that an instructor for a course should NEVER ignore poor basic skills just because he is busy with the more advanced skills. Just like it is TOTALLY inexcusable for an instructor teaching an underwater photography class to ignore his students' poor buoyancy control and trashing the reef while taking their "awesome" photos of the subjects, it is more so for an "Advanced Wreck" diving course. I can't imagine me taking on students in an advanced or any type of upper level program and continuing on with the "advanced" skills with the students if the students haven't mastered the fundamental basic skills first. I would stop the "advanced" course and work with the students on their basic skills first. In fact, I require a skill "assessment and evaluation" session in the class and pool for upper level training for students who weren't my students in prior courses or for my students who haven't been diving in a while or took their courses with me a long time prior. It will never be attributed to me that I certified a student in a specialty or advanced course while his basic skills are lacking especially their buoyancy. BUT, I ain't no dive luminary or dive idol, I am just a crazy dive instructor teaching diving in a crazy and totally screwed up part of the wonderful, happy and joyful world, sunny Libya

Wow, lots of words for someone who doesn’t give a rat. By the way, is your self-promoting essay here an example of "propaganda", or “marketing”?

 

[rddvet]

Really? You see a 1 hour video from a 4 day class and think you have a good enough perception of the entire class to make a statement like that? You know nothing about the other 3 days and 23 hours and can condemn the entire training session like that? Wow. Sounds like a lot more emotion there rather than actually knowing what transpired during the whole course.

Yes absolutely. What’s hard to follow. A lack of basic skills was clearly demonstrated in the vide of students that passed a class. It makes me question the level of instruction. I think I made it pretty clear throughout this thread. Not sure where you get the emotion stuff from. Cerich even made it clear he feels there could have been standards violations. That’s a lot more serious than me questioning the quality of instruction.

So what’s your level of technical certification and did you watch the video? Would your tech instructor let you kneel whenever you were under stress and pass you?

 

[CptTightPants21]

Really? You see a 1 hour video from a 4 day class and think you have a good enough perception of the entire class to make a statement like that? You know nothing about the other 3 days and 23 hours and can condemn the entire training session like that? Wow. Sounds like a lot more emotion there rather than actually knowing what transpired during the whole course.

3 day class. Also per original post this was the final dive of day 3. Not much emotion, just some people stating the sky is clearly a shade of blue and others who apparently deny the sky has any color at all.

This video is similar to the others that have circulated. What we have witnessed is not an abnormality, it's a pattern.

 

[Protondecay123]

Yes absolutely. What’s hard to follow. A lack of basic skills was clearly demonstrated in the vide of students that passed a class. It makes me question the level of instruction. I think I made it pretty clear throughout this thread. Not sure where you get the emotion stuff from. Cerich even made it clear he feels there could have been standards violations. That’s a lot more serious than me questioning the quality of instruction.

So what’s your level of technical certification and did you watch the video? Would your tech instructor let you kneel whenever you were under stress and pass you?

I will say this The one thing I do agree with you about is the first statement you made on this thread. That you had right. Otherwise it's been hyperbole mixed with envy/jealousy as best I can tell. Is there something about technical diving that naturally draws toxic personalities as instructors?

 

[ChuckP]

I'm such a terrible diver for I too have kneeled on the Hydro Atlantic more than once in the same spot those folks did......

I can do dang near anything while neutral - I don't look the prettiest stowing long hoses on side mount bottles but otherwise it's not so bad. When teaching classes, yes it's neutral as best I can with students and you are constantly working with them to improve their diving skills - I've seen DM candidates that needed a lot of skills work. Current comes into play here and there's times you have to get people on the bottom - it sucks but you work with what God gives you that day. If only we could all dive in no flow caves or open water - but where would you be when you roll into something with a current?

So - John's classes, at times he kneels - apparently painful for some to see. Why do the students kneel, cause they see John doing it? Probably, more than likely, I know I did. If it hurts so many peoples feelings then why would he do it? Honestly, first and foremost he's looking out for his students and second, he probably really doesn't care what others think. Looking out for his students - I say it that way because he's like a traffic cop rounding up all these students - he crams what I feel is a ton of material into every dive and each dive is time limited, the times he kneels seemed to be the times we were organizing underwater - students may have kneeled while that organizing was going on or waiting on other students.

Could all of his teaching occur while neutral? Yea, probably but that'd be a bitch fighting currents and trying to keep track of things. His wreck diving class is a hands on class - I forget how he says it, but you are squeezing thru holes and windows, he teaches you to pull yourself with your hands verses fining (and to the guy that says there isn't that much difference, friend, you're in way better shape than I am).

I think you gotta open your mind to the time and a place concept, what value are you gaining type thing.

Good teacher bad teacher - I had a fantastic Einstein type math teacher eons ago that really had a hard time teaching the entry level of Diffy Q - I went to another math teacher for help over that initial hump, once thru the initial pain, Einstein suddenly made sense. IMO, the best teachers know it, live it and can pass it on in such a way that you can learn it - if you can't pass the knowledge on in such a way that it gets absorbed, you're failing.

Standards violations? As an instructor, I take that really seriously and from what I see, depth is the only violation and I also understand there is a waiver for that - I'm PADI not TDI but if it's something other than that, I'd be curious to know for my own sake.

 

[bakodiver391]

I spent 10 days diving with John and Alec earlier this year, and enjoyed their company immensely. A couple of things I adopted from John straight away, because they made sense. Use of strobes and use of air integration. I don't see myself adopting his practice of riding the deco ceiling on one's computer, nor filling an SMB from one's bladder, because they don't make sense to me or don't fit my dive style. If you are accustomed to rounding down your deco stops to the nearest 10 feet/ 3M, then suddenly switch to John's system, it is a more aggressive profile, even if still within the GF ceiling. It may work for you, it may not. It may be that rounding down was the only thing preventing you from getting bent. I like to launch my SMB aggressively from the wreck with lots of air, that way it launches straight and I can use the lift to initiate my ascent. Worked a thousand times for me, why change?

 

[Heat Miser]

I love it @Zack-Bloom broke the internet without showing us his tits or ass.....

Thankyou once again for posting the video,

I hope it comes back online soon and that you continue to add others that incur similar debate.

@Zack-Bloom have you considered a advanced sidemount course, with a famous practitioner, that will really get the debate going vs +/- twins.

 

[rddvet]

I will say this The one thing I do agree with you about is the first statement you made on this thread. That you had right. Otherwise it's been hyperbole mixed with envy/jealousy as best I can tell. Is there something about technical diving that naturally draws toxic personalities as instructors?

Definitely no jealousy or envy. I'm proud to say that I have been lucky enough (lucky because it's impossible to fully know an instructor before a course) to have had instructors that held me to the highest standard and would not pass me if I didn't.
I find it funny that I asked you a direct questions about whether you have taken a tech course and if that instructor allowed poosr skills, but you ignored it. That seems to be the way with those of you on the it's ok side of things. You're loud about your thoughts, but don't put any facts out there to support your opinions. So again, please answer. And if the answer is you have no technical training, I won't be surprised.
Nothing toxic here. Just honest opinion. You just don't like it or agree. To each his own.

 

[rddvet]

ChuckP-it's clear in the video current wasn't the reason for kneeling. Your argument is weak. You're cool with a lack of basic skills in a technical class. It's your opinion and you have the right to it. Many of us highly disagree, and I would say a very high percentage of technical instructors would as well.

 

[oldschoolto]

I've been following this thread just for the laughs.. As always there are the "GODS" of cave diving bad mouthing others.. I even read one person blowing off John's thoughts on reducing CO2 well Diving.. CO2 is 10x as bad as nitrogen, AND ADDING HELIUM DOESN'T HELP CO2 build up..

And if you need to have someone verify your gas switch, You should stay in the kiddy pool..

Jim...