Video from a Training Dive with John Chatterton

[doctormike]

Who says you aren't going to do progressive penetration in a cave. You absolutely should learn the cave before continually poenetrating further

Really? Cave diving with no line? I don't cave dive, but if you say that you do that, I'll believe you.

What spearfisherman do don't have any bearing here or to the discussion on quality of instruction. There's crappy looking cave divers who pus 1000s of feet. That doesn't mean they can teach safely.

I guess the question comes back again to what you consider a good diver (as opposed to a safe diver). And I think that the skating analogy is appropriate.

A figure skater has not the slightest bit of excessive motion. Every move is precise, poised and perfectly balanced. Points are deducted for minuscule wobbles or a slightly misplaced foot. The whole point of the sport is excruciatingly fine control over body position. Hockey simply is not the same thing, you don't need to love poutine to understand that. Yet those athletes are also supremely skilled at their sport, and compete at the highest levels. So are figure skaters "better" skaters than hockey players? Are hockey players "crappy looking"?

Seriously, not everyone has the same goals. Doesn't necessarily make them unsafe divers.

 

[doctormike]

cleverly disguised as elitism

?

 

[rjack321]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

A Moderator is taking the liberty of singling out this excellent observation with boldface. @Zack-Bloom is to be congratulated for keeping this thread on a very even keel, despite some not-so-veiled criticism.

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I dont understand what the big hangup about criticism is. People improve by working on their weaknesses and shortcomings not glossing over them or pretending they aren't important. Being ruthless about your weak spots is how to stay alive tech diving too.

 

[CT-Rich]

I think Zack learned a very special lesson today. Don’t share videos of special moments.

Zack shared an unedited hour long training dive. If anyone else wants to share a students eye view of their wreck penetration class, feel free. Was it a perfect dive? No. He even said there were a lot of mistakes. Was it a 200 year old wooden wreck? No. Kneeling on the deck at 140’ wasn’t perfect, but it wasn’t going to destroy any historical artifacts. I did like some of the questions about shooting the SMB from depth, they were actually interesting topics about best practices and ascent rates. I wish there was more discussion like that.

It was a well done video. Obviously a lot of time was spent preparing it and it will be a shame if Zack decides this isn’t a good forum to share future projects in.

Zach, there is a video forum that will be far more forgiving than here. Thanks for laying your soul bare...l

 

[rjack321]

Really? Cave diving with no line? I don't cave dive, but if you say that you do that, I'll believe you.

No he's saying you lay line - AND learn the cave before getting ahead of what your brain understands/knows. They aren't mutually exclulsive

 

[doctormike]

No he's saying you lay line - AND learn the cave before getting ahead of what your brain understands/knows. They aren't mutually exclulsive

The term "progressive penetration" - to my understanding - refers to exploring an overhead environment without a line, based on knowledge of the area. I have never heard the term in any other context, but maybe that's a regional difference.

 

[mcpowell]

Zach,
Thank you for posting this. I subscribed to your YouTube channel so I can locate your video in the future. I recently took a class from JC, but none of our group recorded the dive. Our dive plan and path through the Hydro was almost identical. Your commentary was very well done.

To those future readers wondering if they should take a class from John...like the OP, I highly recommend him. I found the class to be challenging and fascinating. I believe the other 2 students, who took the class with me, would agree. He is not teaching cave diving, and clearly states multiple times, wrecks and caves each have their differences.

 

[rjack321]

The term "progressive penetration" - to my understanding - refers to exploring an overhead environment without a line, based on knowledge of the area. I have never heard the term in any other context, but maybe that's a regional difference.

Progressive penetration part of all cavern and cave training. You dont rely exclusively on the line as your sole source of navigational/exit information. If you cant basically exit without the line you dont know the cave very well and need to slow down.

 

[doctormike]

Progressive penetration part of all cavern and cave training. You dont rely exclusively on the line as your sole source of navigational/exit information. If you cant basically exit without the line you dont know the cave very well and need to slow down.

OK, that explains it. We are using the term differently.

 

[rddvet]

OK, that explains it. We are using the term differently.

Yeah, seems our definitions are different. I meant exactly what rjack said.