Vertigo on deco

[TSandM]

Your original plan to scooter back up the slope of the bottom to shallower water made a lot of sense in terms of avoiding having to deco in mid water and in terms of covering your bets with terrain navigation and compass navigation as opposed to just compass navigation. It is also a very sound plan in terms of your known history of vertigo issues in mid water. it also makes sense in terms of ensuring a slow ascent. My suggestion is to lay that out as "THE" plan next time you do that or a similar dive.

That WAS my plan -- the problem was that it wasn't Peter's, but I didn't know that! As it turns out, he was trying to push us up shallow because he wanted off his backgas, to conserve supply for the second dive. So he was going to do a direct ascent, and since I'll avoid them if I can, the minute he said "move up to 20", I wanted to move rapidly upslope so we wouldn't lose the bottom, and he didn't understand my motives.

As I said, we went over all of this in detail for the second dive, and that one went off without any issues at all.

 

[IyaDiver]

Hi TS,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I too never understood how a vertigo is like until last October. I can only tracked the reason to my sinus problem. My left ear is always the slow one to equalize. It has been many years that I can no longer equalize with just swallowing, now I need to blow my nose to assist.

Last two dive trips, a 7 days Live On Board, both trips I had vertigo.
The first one was on the 4th day of diving, 3-4 dives a day on those trip.
I am lousy with cool water and I mean 25-26*C is already "cold" for me if for a trip with 3-4 dive a day and for 7 days non stop.

I like hoovering in blue water, I usually keep a distance until I barely can see the slope or the wall behind me and lock it down with compass just in case I loose bearing.
It was only at a 32 meter depth ( 106 feet ) when I ascended from 37 meter (122 feet ). I know my left ear is lousy by that 4th day and I expected some pain and that typical hissing sound of a reverse block as I ascended. Hold and behold, the pain sensation did no come but as I was swimming back to the steep slope, I saw the whole slope shaking like earthquacke.

Dang, if that was vertigo, I am scared !!

Not knowing where up is , is no issue, I can use my depth gauge to detect as I would in very low viz water. For some reason what scared most was the sensation of like near fainting. I have low blood pressure, at times when I squat and stand suddenly, I get like a bit of tunnel vision or things look much darker, like a camera on F22 aperture...the sensation is almost like that. I guess I can call that experience a vertigo.

So I grabbed a rock and closed my eyes and breathed long and deep for a minute or so. I then ascended slowly while hovering very closely to the slope to have a visual reference. I stop diving that day and missed some two dives . Next day I was OK but the fear is still in my head.

Then, in the next 41 days I went to the same place and on the same boat and same 7 days LOB. By day 3 on that trip, I could feel my body was not doing very well. I was too exhausted even before the trip.

As usual my left ear gone bad on me and this time I dare not hoover in the blue water anymore and in fact as in your case shaking my head left and right like tumbling, did caused me to feel "weird". I did not experience that earthquacke vision anymore as I dare not hoover in blue water after day 3. But I have this sub-concious sense that I am about to faint. I don't know if that was just in my head or what, but it made me felt really uncomfotable even while I am grabbing a rock !!

It also must have had to do with my lousy sinus. I had a safety stop at 15 feet deep and holding a rock. The rock is near a cliff wall, so the water was all white wash, not calm at all, some 3-4 footer swell on top of me. It only took only 3 minutes to make me feel "dizzy" because the water depth keep changing as the swell come and go. I couldn't take it anymore. So I drifted in the current and continue my safety stop with my sausage in the blue water. That sure felt better as I was swept away, the water was calmer in the deep . No more dizzy head.

I think vertigo can also be a mind thing and weak physical condition at that given time.
I noticed that on both trips, I get this "vertigo" after day 3 or 4 or when I was already exhausted. As I got worn out, my mind kept telling me to fear vertigo and the more I fear it, the easier I got it. This maybe not a pure vertigo but I was really scared at the sensation of near fainting which kept haunting me.

I like jumping into blue water all the time. I do deco in blue water without problems.
Some dive spot I have is shallowest at 90 feet , a sea mount and small one with 300+ feet water surrounding it and viz less than 30 feet. I always ascend and drift in blue water, no problem but that "vertigo" I had , kept registering in my mind now. What will happen if I am hoovering in blue water and get that near fainting sensation, what am I to grab ? I know looking hard on my dive computer ( or something ) will help to change my focus but if suddenly that computer also shake like an earthquacke...:depressed: what will happen ?

Its worse than getting really drunk and having double vision...I swear.

So, now what I did was get a big sized surface marker, and put 140 feet of line on it on a reel. If I ever in blue water while hoovering and get that weird sensation again, I will send my sausage to the surface and grab on it and close my eyes and set myself a bit negatif buoyancy and will "climb" to the surface on my line. I sure hope that will work.

Dive safe guys....

Regards,
Iya

 

[lamont]

I have had serious problems with vertigo in midwater since I started diving, and only about a year ago did someone give me the key -- rapid head movement with no visual reference will start me tumbling. Since I got that piece of advice, I haven't had an episode. But on this dive, I was really worried about losing Peter, because we were both on scooters, in fairly poor visibility. If I continued to motor without being able to see him, it was highly likely we'd get separated, as we'd been disagreeing on the heading all along. If I didn't get on the trigger, we were SURE to be separated, because I could hear his scooter motor running, and it would only take seconds to be unable to see one another. So I began looking for him actively, which involved rolling up on my side and turning my head repeatedly . . . and sure enough, after a couple of iterations, the world broke off its moorings and began tumbling and spinning, and I lost all sense of where up was.

I'd say you need to avoid that.

I might break trim to look up, or roll once to look up, but generally i know that buddy should be above me in that case, so I'll just ascend normally until they're back in visual range. That is without a scooter, though.

Scooters and deco gets into an interesting area, since you want your buddy to deal with gas switching protocol and oxtox rescue, but scooters make it real easy to lose each other. Since you had a bottom contour, I think your instinct to scooter up the contour and deco switch was a good one. When mixing scooter diving and deco, I'd stick to either having a contour or a visual reference (upline) to keep from getting lost from each other.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I always like reading your posts, especially the ones where you describe your screw ups. Some people suggested that she should have sent up an smb, however if the severity of her vertigo was anything like the severity that I experience once in a while, performing that function would be impossible.

I don't normally get screwed up by mid water situations, what gets me is a reverse block in one ear when I try to come off the bottom a few feet. Usually it srikes at the beginning of the dive and can be much more likely on shallow dives when a depth chage from 25 to 20 ft makes for a large differential in pressure.

For me, what I must do is immediately dive back down for the bottom and re-equalize my ears, and then slowly ascend. Sometimes I can't and have to remove mask and blow my nose.

If you have never experienced extreme vertigo, it is hard to understand how it eliminates your ability to function. I have had it where my vision is completely spinning and I can see almost nothing. I have had it for 20 seconds, dove down quick, got the problem fixed, the vertigo goes away instantly and then 45 seconds later, out of nowhere I am puking uncontrollably. I guess the vertigo stimulates some hormones or something and once the ball is set rolling, the outcome is fixed. First time I got it very severely was a solo night dive and it was very scary. I got hit with it another time real bad on a 175 ft solo dive and was so dizzing, I wasn't sure if it was my ears or a scewed up mix, so I bailed on that dive supe fast.

For TSM, I would think that if you can very quickly look at and concentrate on your scooter, that this should help with the vision enough that in a few moments you could check your guages and figure out what is going on. Stop looking around, stop moving, stare at one thing and then try to figure out what to do. Maybe not?

However, it is kinda amazing to me that the two of you had never planned on what to do when seperated when under a deco ceiling. I dive solo so much, that this would not have bothered me much, but if you dive in a tight buddy team, the solution would seem to be simple, STOP scootering, ascend slowly and finsih your deco independently ASAP. I don't see much else you can do. Scootering on ascent without visual references, sounds like a good way to get bent. Also, why didn't your buddy come down and get in your face if you were flailing around? How can he be above you watching you in bad vis and still be using the scooter.. kinda hard for me to understand how that occured?

Do you know what you are going to do when you have a deco ceiling and the scooter sticks in the "on" position? I've witnessed a situation where some very "elite" divers ditched their $3,000 scooter in the ocean because this problem was not envisioned.

 

[TSandM]

Yes, I know what to do if the scooter sticks on. There are several solutions, and I've played with all of them except sticking my hand in the blades

We've talked quite a bit about buddy separation on deco in the last couple of days. I'm with you; I really don't see any option but to continue your deco and hope to regroup, which is why it's so important not to get separated in the first place. As I said, scootering and midwater deco are off my list for the time being; I can't put that much together, apparently.

 

[gcbryan]

Good job dealing with the situation. I haven't had full blown vertigo underwater but I've been on the edge. I have experienced it a couple of times flying and once driving in the snow.

Not long ago while solo diving at night I came close. Viz was not good and I was just out of sight of the bottom and my light when off for a moment. I can't remember why, I may have turned it off testing a new light.

Other than the vertigo how was Whytecliff. I like diving there. With scooters would be even better except that you have to carry them down to the entrance!
I was up just a few feet and felt a little light (positively buoyant). I knew if I just didn't move I would continue to be neutrally buoyant so I exhaled a little more than usual knowing this would make me slightly negative so I wouldn't be moving up.

I just closed my eyes and was still for just a second and the vertical feeling went away. I knew I was stable and then it was no problem to get the light back on.

I've learned as has been mentioned that with vertigo (wherever you experience it) you need to not move your head around and if in the water you need to know that you are stable and neutrally buoyant. Once to do that you can just shut your eyes and chill for a moment since you are confident that you aren't going anywhere. When you open your eyes the vertigo will most likely be gone.

You've got the head thing figured out so just add the slight negative buoyancy and try closing your eyes for a second just to regroup and I bet the vertigo will pass.

 

[EGad]

For those of you who want to try Vertigo: The Home Game, you can easily replicate a Barany Chair at home with a swiveling office chair. Bárány chair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I got to ride in one at Sheppard AFB, TX when I went through EAUC (Enlisted Aircrew Undergraduate Course) during Aerospace Physiology training. It induces mild temporary vertigo, and uncontrollable laughter for the people watching you.

Simply sit in the chair with your eyes closed and head tilted down. Have an assistant spin you, slowly (only 1-2 revolutions per second We're going for Spatial Disorientation, not motion sickness) for 30 seconds to a minute. Then have your assistant stop you facing a distant object, such as a picture on a wall, and open your eyes, pointing at the object you're trying to focus on. You will feel like you're still rotating and the object you're pointing to keeps drifting to one side. Also, have your assistant look closely at your eyes. They will vibrate side to side rapidly. This is called horizontal eye nystagmus, meaning an involuntary eye movement in a horizontal axis. This is what police doing a field sobriety test look for when they have you follow their finger or other object.

It's pretty fun, and you may even learn some science!
So when your boss wonders why you're spinning around in your cubicle, tell them you're doing medical tests.

Eric

 

[TSandM]

Other than the vertigo, Whytecliff was fun! I brought our hand truck, so getting gear down to the site and back up wasn't as bad as it could have been. (Doubles and deco bottles and scooters add up to a LOT of gear!) The weather was sucky, cold and drizzly and grey, but the site is so beautiful . . . Viz wasn't super but could have been worse (maybe ten to 15, and worse deeper for some reason). I'd dive there again, for sure.

But I'd plan the deco better

 

[bsee65]

Do you carry a lot of life insurance or does your husband have a girl on the side?

Fact #1: This is something that has happened to you before, more than once by the sound of it.
Fact #2: Your husband could see you the whole time and you weren't responding to his signals though you were obviously looking right at him at some point during the episode.
Fact #3: You were behaving in a visibly erratic as you tried to regain your bearings.
Fact #4: He didn't get his ass over to you to make sure everything was right in your world.

Assumption #1: Your husband was aware of your propensity to experience vertigo, right?
Assumption #2: Your husband wasn't having an issue that forced him to ascend without you for his safety.
Assumption #3: Your husband doesn't have any sort of issue that would have prevented him from coming to you while you were in difficulty.

Look, Lynne, I really can appreciate your taking full responsibility for what was going on with you under the water. That's the mature attitude to have. Obviously, I'm joking about his intent to see you come to harm. That said, it would seem your husband was a lousy buddy in more ways than one.

Bad Buddy #1: Planning a dive that would put you in that position with knowledge of your issue.
Bad Buddy #2: Leaving you to go far enough ahead that you ended up losing him as a frame of reference. If he stayed with you as you ascended, he and his bubbles would act as your reference for up.
Bad Buddy #3: Not coming to your aid when he saw you clawing at the water and bouncing. I can't imagine watching a buddy apparently lose buoyancy control and in a minor panic without coming to the conclusion that I should get in position to give aid.

I hope you guys talked about this, what should have gone differently, and how you will change your diving habits to be safer in the future. If you didn't wrap your brain around your problem as quickly as you did, you could have been harmed.

If you lost him after the gas switch, you'd have been pretty thoroughly screwed. Pick a good direction to go when you have a deco obligation and are sucking on 100% 02. Neither the surface nor 50fsw would have been a winner, but the surface seems the better choice. I suppose these are good things for you to consider beforehand as well.

Note - I wrote this several hours ago but didn't post until I just arrived home. I see you did discuss this at some level before a second dive that day.

 

[firstdive2005]

Lynne thanks for the transparency.
One of the men that works for me had a terrible accident falling last year, cracked skull, concusion. He has had a very remarkable recovery. He now suffers from vertigo when he moves his head side to side, up and down to fast. If someone calls him and it startles him, he needs to be steadied.
Have you ever hurt yourself that resulted in serious trauma to the skull? Or is the vertigo just a thing you have.
I have never suffered virtego in any form so it is intrigueing to read.
By the way good job on keeping your crap together, thats inspiring. be well. kev