VDH BP/W package review

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

I'd be cautious about using manufacturer's numbers. Most cut and sew shops don't have a back plate or cylinder or cambands on hand to use for testing. Many have no idea how the gear assembles. They just fill the wing in the "Free" state, not the constrained condition that a plate and cylinder presents. Not a knock on you, but I've seen quite a few "30" lbs wings that offered ~25 (or less) capacity when mounted. Same issue, the contract manufacturer building them had never seen a back plate.....

Tobin

I don't consider it a knock on me at all. I respect your opinion and experience on the subject a great deal. I supplied dimensional drawings and specs of my plate to the manufacturer during our original discussion on making wings for me. That is why/how the original #18 wings ended up with the small slots....Because my plates had elongated slots, in my opinion the divers using them would appreciate not having a bunch of slack with long slots in the wing and long slots in the plate......The court of public opinion cried FOWL and declared my #18 wing inadequate. What they didn't know and simply "assumed" from behind their keyboard was that I asked for a wing design to fit all manufactures plates when in reality I only asked that it work best with my plate. I have since changed and put elongated slots on all my wings just so I don't have to answer questions from innerweb commandos reviewing a product they have never used.
The manufacture of my wings has been at it a long time and kinda like he does not tell me how to build regulators, I don't tell him how to build wings. BUT if there is a problem or something I can do better to serve the customer I will do my best to make it happen.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

You probably need to replace the outer nut too, not just the OPV cage, seat , spring and cord.

The soft seat needs to seal on the end of the *INNER T NUT" *not* on the lip in the outer nut. Many OEM outer nuts have an inner lip pthat is too tall to allow the soft seat to reach the end of the T nut. This is why we offered two different kits.......

BTW, wings don't need to retain more than 1-2 psi. In use the pressure differential between ambient and inside the bladder is effectively *zero* Stiffer Springs in the OPV just put more load on the wing shell and maybe the bladder when a diver leans on the power inflator......

Tobin

Perhaps when you get setup again we can discuss working together on how I can offer DSS options to my customers.

 

[Anthony A.]

@tbone1004

What is the advantage of using the dss opv compared to the stock vdh one?

 

[cool_hardware52]

I don't consider it a knock on me at all. I respect your opinion and experience on the subject a great deal. I supplied dimensional drawings and specs of my plate to the manufacturer during our original discussion on making wings for me.

A drawing could convey slot location, but won't allow for capacity testing.

Tobin

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

A drawing could convey slot location, but won't allow for capacity testing.

Tobin

The information I was trying to convey in my post was that I did not choose an off the shelf design to go with my plate. I asked and paid for 3 sample wings to be made and decided on the one that I thought would be the best to go with my plate and harness setup. I then had the opportunity to spend 5 days on a trip with 9 divers using the new wing and received nothing but positive feedback from those using my choice of wing with the VDH plate and harness setup. There were 3 divers on the trip using standard plates which I swapped out their current wing with one of my new ones. The feedback from those divers was positive as well.
After selling 30 some wings to divers here in the US, Europe, Australia and Saudi Arabia I have received nothing but rave reviews and one return. Several of the divers asked for larger wings to accommodate use when diving in cold water with thicker suits, bigger cylinders and more lead. So I made larger versions as well. Are my wings perfect? I'm not foolish enough to think so and take all customer feedback in consideration for future changes and or improvements.
The second part was to extend a laurel in your direction, acknowledging your expertise in the field with hopes that in the future our businesses might mutually support each other in the very small world of scuba diving.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The information I was trying to convey in my post was that I did not choose an off the shelf design to go with my plate. I asked and paid for 3 sample wings to be made and decided on the one that I thought would be the best to go with my plate and harness setup.

No need to be defensive, but nothing you've offered suggests your contract cut and sew shop tests for actual capacity.

As per my first post if it was me I'd invest the 15 minutes required to verify actual capacity.

Tobin

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Actual lift capacity will be different with every different plate/tank combo used. How are you supposed to rate that?
Bryan, test your wing with your plate and call it good. You can’t be responsible for correct stated lift if someone uses your wing on a wide flat doubles plate with an 8” tank with no STA.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

No need to be defensive, but nothing you've offered suggests your contract cut and sew shop tests for actual capacity.

As per my first post if it was me I'd invest the 15 minutes required to verify actual capacity.

Tobin

Despite my best effort to engage you in a mutually beneficial conversation with the possibility of working together in the future I have failed miserably. As I have several times in the past, I will again wish you the best of luck on your relocation and future success in your business. I will let paying customers decided the success or failure of my product line, not my competition.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

Actual lift capacity will be different with every different plate/tank combo used. How are you supposed to rate that?
Bryan, test your wing with your plate and call it good. You can’t be responsible for correct stated lift if someone uses your wing on a wide flat doubles plate with an 8” tank with no STA.

It's painfully obvious that no matter what I say or how I try to explain it I will be wrong. Instead of beating my head against the wall I'll simply go on doing what I do best and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Actual lift capacity will be different with every different plate/tank combo used. How are you supposed to rate that?.

Is VDH not offering a combo that includes a known plate and wing?

As I have detailed more than once in the past the protocol we follow is to create the most restrictive combination possible. With the DSS line that would be our widest plates (large, long pattern or extra long pattern) add our weight plates and mount an 8 inch cylinder.

This results in a "worst case scenario" for the goods we offer. Whenever I had a customer that was planning some franken combo I would advise that they too verify actual capacity for the plate / cylinder(s) / rebreather rig they were contemplating.

Verifying actual capacity requires only a garden hose and bathroom scale, frankly I'm confused as to why there is such resistance to doing so.

Tobin