Valve insert/donut

[jonnythan]

It's not even about the tank or regulator.. it's about PST being able to effectively market high pressure tanks.

Requiring DIN connections was a big barrier to HP for a lot of people shopping for tanks. But now, you can use any ol normal regulator on their E-series tanks, widening the market significantly.

I don't think there are any modern regulators that can't handle 3500 psi..

 

[pgdive]

I agree about the regulators. I am getting a lot of questions from potential PST owners who have always believed that HP=300 bar din. I just wondered if there was any regulation or industry recomendation that governed this.

Leadking any comment on this?

Paul

 

[jonnythan]

pg, like Leadking said.. look at the valve. It's a 232 bar DIN valve, and apparently it's rated at 232 bar at 59 degrees.

Well, 232 bar is over 3300 psi... but if you take a cylinder that's 232 bar at 59 degrees, it will be 3442 psi when you warm it up to 70 degrees. The tanks are rated for 3442 psi at 70 degrees, which matches the limit of the valve.

 

[Hoosier]

Hmm~~ It is an informative post to know the behind story. When I got PST tanks, there was an option between 230 bar combo or 300 bar DIN valves. I didn’t know anything about the regulator issue. Based on your information, PST tank can be filled up to 3500 psi with 300 bar DIN valve? Apparently, SP has mounted a 300 bar DIN configuration as a default DIN reg. So, do I need 200 din or 300 din adopter if I have to order SP regulator?

When PST originally created the E series tank they were 3500 psi. The complaint from the industry was the required use of a 300 bar regulator. The engineers at PSI got out the mathematical smoke and mirrors and solved the problem. The used the European standard of 230 bar @59F and did a temperature correction to 70F and arrived at 3442 psi. They downrated the cylinder to 3442 psi which allowed the use of the 230 bar connection. The important thing to remember in all of this is, the connection is to protect the regulator and the use of adapters to use a low pressure rated regulator on a high pressure tank should be avoided. ITS NOT ABOUT THE TANK, IT'S ABOUT THE REGULATOR.

 

[jonnythan]

E series tanks are 3442 psi, period, and can be used with a 300 bar din valve or 200 bar combo valve.

A DIN regulator will work with either valve.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Can any 200 bar DIN valves be converted to Yoke valve with this insert or donut (whatever you called). http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/thermo.shtml

Yes, but... some 200/232 Bar DIN valves with yoke insert and some yoke regs (especially older ones) will not work together as the yoke will not physically fit over the valve.

Is there any size difference on the insert depending on the DIN valve brands?

No.... well... not really... some inserts are a just the tiniest tad longer than others - not so you'd notice it, you understand, but it can make the difference in a regulator fitting over the valve/insert or not. YMMV
Rick

 

[pgdive]

To what pressure should the tanks be used with the din plug intalled ie with a yoke regulator? 3442?

Paul

 

[DA Aquamaster]

To what pressure should the tanks be used with the din plug intalled ie with a yoke regulator? 3442?

That depends on the yoke. Really old yokes were only rated to a bit over 2500 psi to meet the requirements of the 2250/2475 psi steel 72's of the day. They were beefed up later to handle 3000 and 3300 psi tanks. Even with 3000 psi rated yokes though there are two flavors with the early ones being significantly lighter in construction than the later heavy 3000 and 3300 psi yokes. I have seen a few yokes with "4000 psi" stamped on the yoke as well.

So 3442 psi is no big deal for a yoke rated at 4000 psi or even for a heavy yoke conservatively rated at 3300 psi. But with an older, lighter yoke, 3442 psi would blow it right off the valve.

 

[do it easy]

No.... well... not really... some inserts are a just the tiniest tad longer than others - not so you'd notice it, you understand, but it can make the difference in a regulator fitting over the valve/insert or not. YMMV
Rick

I've heard something similar to this, but never tested it out. Basically, I heard that the OMS and Pro-Valve donuts aren't interchangeable. I don't know if this means a bad seal and a slow leak or worse.

 

[Marek K]

some inserts are a just the tiniest tad longer than others - not so you'd notice it, you understand, but it can make the difference in a regulator fitting over the valve/insert or not.

What I'd noticed at a Red Sea resort operation last year was, our yoke first stages (both Sherwoods) wouldn't "mate" properly with some of their donut inserts. It felt like the orifice flange would sort of "skate" around on the donut, and there wouldn't be a tight seal. With other of their inserts, there was no problem... you could feel the flange mating with the donut (am I actually writing this?), and the seal would be fine.

I got our own donuts to make sure they'd seal correctly, but that's the main reason why I'm still converting our regs to DIN here in Europe.

--Marek