Valve drill

[Belmont]

I strive to follow DIR practices in my diving.

When it comes to doing a valve shutdown drill I find it hard to reach the right valve, because my right arm does not flex as much as the left one.

I read, I think it was on the board here, that you can loosen your belt a few inches prior to doing the drill to be able to pull the tanks higher on your back, thus making it easier to reach the valves.

I plan to ask my instructor but before I was curious to have DIR divers opinions.

Is there a safety issue doing this?
Is it permitted under DIR practice?
Your thoughts

I have to say that it was possible for me to execute a valve drill during my cave training in Mexico. I was diving twin 80's with a 3mm wet suit.

Now I'm diving with twin 130's and a TLS 350/polartec300gm

 

[Shawn@IReallyloveScub]

I found that when I started with doubles the I had to loosen the belt to start but the more you do it the easyier it gets. I also am diving the same suit and tanks you are and depending on the day my trim gets a little out when I am doing the drill when I use the steel tanks. What was shown to me by a GUE instructor to aid in the reaching of the valves in the TLS is put your rig on and prior to buckeling the belt pull up the teliscoping tourso to give extra slack in your reach then buckel.
I my self still feel more comfortable in the ALM 80's which is why when I am in class I use them, but what I have found is due to my training dives being done in the steel tanks when I go to the ALM's its like easy work on the drills.

"O" the answer is "No" you cant get the full tech pass having to reach down to un do your belt, But in the real world if you have to untill your skills get their, then you have to.
I had to take Fundies twice and I was doing all sorts of bad things the first time, but after the class you will go back and your buddies will think that your a different person, even though the improvments may not have been enough, you will practice, practice, and practice some more. Then go back and get the full rating and will not have to touch you buckel. If your luck and work hard and listen you may be able to after their instruction to do it well enough and pass the first time.

 

[coldsmoke]

While I've never done a valve drill in a wetsuit, I can see the difference in flexibility.

Let me preface this by saying I am no DIR authority - actually just learning myself, but my first suggestion is that you practice for real situations as best you can. Is it realistic to loosen your rig prior addressing a manifold failure? While a valve drill is not likely to emulate exactly what you would do in a real failure I think we can all agree that having to adjust your rig prior to the drill is streching it.

A trick that I learned that seems to work pretty well is to make sure your suit isn't bunched up around your shoulders and upper body prior to the dive. Once you are in the water but before you descend go head first and really stretch your arms/shoulders out. Try to make sure that you have as much flexibility there before you descend and start to loose even more mobility.

Good luck.

Hunter

 

[TSandM]

As coldsmoke says, having to undo the harness to get to the valve would be a big problem if you were really having a catastrophic gas loss.

Although the necks on Al80's are a bit longer than the necks on 130s, it sounds to me as though you have enough data to know that the primarily problem is your dry suit/undergarment combination, and not your arm. As people have said, there are things you can do to maximize your mobility in the suit. What I used to do was, after I got into the suit, I'd reach up and stretch my arms as high as I could. I'd do the same thing again once I had my rig on, and then, before descending, I'd put some gas in the suit and lie on my stomach in the water, and stretch my arms up over my head as far as they would go. With those three steps, I could get enough mobility to reach my valves in my compressed neoprene suit. It was still a struggle.

Then I bought a Fusion. Problem permanently solved. No more stretching!

 

[AndyNZ]

Personally, I don't see this as being a major issue (not that I am an authority, or even 100% DIR)- it's not ideal if you have to loosen the belt, but if that's what works then do it. Remember that the valve drill is just that, a drill.

In real circumstances, you're main issue will be making sure that you are signalling your team that you have a problem. If you know you have issues with valve shutdowns then get someone in your team into a position where they can assist.

I have a similar problem with left post thanks to a mis-spent youth. It's worth really focusing on your arm position - it's easier to get the reach if your elbow is right up tight against your ear - if you "batwing" your arm you can't actually reach as far. Just check where your arm is as you are doing the drill and bring it in closer if you can.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know whether the OP is interested in any GUE training, but you will not pass a GUE class if you are dependent on your team to shut down your valves.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

1. Pay particular atttention to your undergarments, particularly if you layer them.

Once you put on an undergarment, reach up and over your head with each arm and ensure there is enough slack in the undergarment to allow the required range of motion. "Bunching" is not exactly what you want, but on the the other hand smoothing out all the slack will leave you hog tied as well. Repeat this for each layer and then do the same when you don the suit before you even get in the harness, if you have a mibility issue, back up and resolve it then.

2. Harness adjustment is also critical, you can end up with it being too tight separate from the loosening the waist belt issue and having it properly adjusted may eliminate the need to even consider loosening the buckle.

3. Going slightly head down in the water helps while trying to reach the valves.

4. You can usually easily reach the isolator if not the right hand valve, so use it to pull the tanks up slightly if needed and or push the bottom of the left tank up with the left hand.

5. It gets easier with practice.

6. What really counts is not whether you get a tech pass in fundies but rather being able to quickly shut down the offending valve in a real world emergency. Loosening the waist belt can be done with either hand and can be done while the other hand is on its way up to the valve so the delay is minimal if any, so do what ever you need to do and screw whether it is DIR.

7. If your buddy(ies) have any situational awareness at all they will note the wide and erratic movement of your light immediately and/or they will note the abscence of your light as they proceed a few feet farther on. Having to signal them should be redundant and if not the team has a training issue to resolve.

8. With regard to suits, I agree a Fusion is hard to beat. It offers far more mobility than any other dry suit I have owned and is leaps and bounds ahead of a 7mm wet suit.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Here's my suggestion (because it helped me a lot) ... purchase the book "Fitness for Divers" by Cameron Martz. There's a section in there on doing stretches for valve drills. I found that doing those exercises over a period of a few weeks extended my range of motion considerably.

Exercises, Stretches, and Nutrition for SCUBA Diving

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

What really counts is not whether you get a tech pass in fundies but rather being able to quickly shut down the offending valve in a real world emergency. Loosening the waist belt can be done with either hand and can be done while the other hand is on its way up to the valve so the delay is minimal if any, so do what ever you need to do and screw whether it is DIR.

BTW, I totally agree; the only reason I wrote about passing the class is that the previous poster had suggested not worrying about not being able to reach the valves because your teammates could do it for you. That's not acceptable in any GUE class, as I know from personal experience

 

[Bismark]

Lots of helpful suggestions here. The good news is that if you can reach your valve now, you will be able to fine tune your arm and shoulder positioning to be able to quickly and effeciently turn the right vavle off. Pay attention to the previous posts that recommend stretching, properly positioning your undergarments and working on shoulder mobility. A recent student originally could not touch his right valve at all because of a rotator cuff injury. After stretching and working at it he went from just touching to turning in a short time. No argument that doing this in a 3mm suit is like shooting fish in a barrel compared to doing the same in a drysuit. As for just relying on your buddies to solve your problem underwater, bad idea and if you want to progress in GUE training, it is a show stopper. Same for having to loosen your waist belt first. However, perhaps your waist belt is too tight to start with? (hint, hint) Try simply shrugging your gear forward a bit at the same time as you stretch out your arms full length in front of you. Keep in mind that this will move your center of gravity forward and be prepared for that. One final help is that when you extend your arm prior to bringing it back, bring it along the side of your head and tilt your head down. Then when you reach back, use the leverage of tilting your head back to assist in that final bit of movement of getting your shoulder back the necessary few degrees. Essentially, you head acts as a lever to help move your shoulder back. At the end of the movement, your head will be correctly positioned back against the isolator and your shoulder will have moved further back considerably more than you may have been able to move it by shoulder power alone. After a few weeks, your should should have developed the necessary "memory" to do this without using your head. (no pun intended)
Yes a valve drill is just a drill, however it's purpose is to establish the muscle memory you will need to trouble shoot valve failures further down the road. For this reason it is essential that you be able to manipulate your valves.