Using a spool to return to anchor on boat dive

[rjack321]

Kevin I have a great deal of respect for you and your posts, and usually I agree with them...but I'm calling BS on this.

Swells and wind waves are not the same things. I've been out in 10ft swells and been fine. Cool as a rubber ducky. I have also been out in 4ft waves and gotten the poo kicked out of me. Its all in the wavelength and hence frequency.

 

[rjack321]

Why exactly are cattle-boats not DIR? I have heard this phrase alot.

You talk with the captain and work out what responses he expects to perform in normal operating conditions as well as emergency procedures. You tell him what actions you expect take in contingencies. Finally you take into account the skills sets of the other divers aboard, conditions and competency of the crew and boat and adjust your dive plan accordingly. Then you go diving.

I have no problem doing recreational dives on a 25 diver boat. But you just can't do it for tech dives. Too many teams, too many different runtimes, yada yada. I have squeaked in some Tech1 level dives up here (~60min runtimes) on mixed charters. But if we had an issue I am not so sure the skipper would understand - say a lost deco gas extending our runtime to ~80-90mins.

I can guarantee that you don't have to have line on a 25 diver boat cause you aren't at a site when you must return to the upline. If you were there will be 23 lost divers, cause most don't have a clue.

 

[rjack321]

I suspect you Seattle-its have gotten a bit spoiled on boats.

We don't have swells, we have wind waves and their period is too short to count. 60ft fishing boats have been lost in some surprising places in Puget Sound. One was turtled by waves in Bellingham Channel maybe 8 yrs ago. Skipper died if I remember correctly, 2 crew survived. Not far from where Bandito took us diving in October.

When the wind opposes the current, the waves get very steep and surprisingly dangerous. There's still never any swell which are long period waves generated far offshore in much deeper water (although Puget Sound is 800-900ft deep in places there's not enough fetch to generate swells).

 

[nereas]

Alright, it seems like three themes have come to the fore:

1. Yup, people definitely run lines in order to return to the anchor.

2. It's a better bet to make a primary tie-off near the anchor, not on it.

3. Reels do this job better than spools, owing both to the amount of line they afford, and to the greater ease with which the line can be laid and taken up.

Does this sound like a fair summary?

Excellent summary!

I believe the main advantage of tying near the anchor as opposed to on it would be to preserve your line, if the anchor tears loose, which I have seen happen. Otherwise, whether on or near the anchor, I doubt there is a big difference.

With my X-Scooter DPV, I find myself running line out less and less these days, however, and rather just remembering natural-navigation features, since the scooter gives you tremendous range and speed, and more efficient RMV/SCR as well, to enable finding a boat again more easily when you reverse course and head back. Although AG's method of running out line with a DPV works well, both on letting it out and also in gathering it back in behind you in a large loop, therefore running line from a reel is quite easy to do anytime for low vis conditions even with a DPV.

If you have not gotten your own DPV yet, then just save you pennies in the meantime. They are really nice, for everything. A spool would not be feasible with a DPV, only a large reel would be. And you would not want to use your spool as a reel anyway. Bad habit to get into.

 

[do it easy]

We don't have swells, we have wind waves and their period is too short to count. 60ft fishing boats have been lost in some surprising places in Puget Sound. One was turtled by waves in Bellingham Channel maybe 8 yrs ago. Skipper died if I remember correctly, 2 crew survived. Not far from where Bandito took us diving in October.

When the wind opposes the current, the waves get very steep and surprisingly dangerous. There's still never any swell which are long period waves generated far offshore in much deeper water (although Puget Sound is 800-900ft deep in places there's not enough fetch to generate swells).

The Great Lakes are like this too- some captains will give out refunds in 6' waves. The period is short and the waves also get confused when the wind changes.

 

[Gombessa]

I can guarantee that you don't have to have line on a 25 diver boat cause you aren't at a site when you must return to the upline. If you were there will be 23 lost divers, cause most don't have a clue.

The OP referenced recreational OW dives. It seems he's just interested in maximizing the enjoyment of the dive by reliably getting back to the boat, not just in extreme situations.

 

[lamont]

#24 or #36 line is not going to stop the boat from pulling/dragging its anchor, its going to snap or drag you with it. It could also do such things as pull the reel from your hand (bad) or snap the line further away from the starting point. So now in addition to having to deal with navigation you are going to have to clean up your line before ascending.

With such devices such as GPS and depth sounders the captain knows where he has anchored, so in the event of the anchor slipping or getting pulled, he will know where to look for your bag.

I suspect you Seattle-its have gotten a bit spoiled on boats. In Monterey, 4 to 6 foot swells is a great day and 7 to 9's are common and boats taking experienced divers out on 12 to 16 foot swells. In such conditions, it can be much harder to see the bag and the Anchor + chain bounce around a lot more.

Speaking for myself, if I am running line I really *really* want to get back to my starting point. If the Anchor is not there anymore then at least the people topside will have a starting point on where to start searching.

It just seems to me like you're going to be within about 50 feet of where the anchor line used to be when you find your line is busted. All the negative outcomes you mention you're still going to be where the boat had better be able to see your bag on the surface (otherwise you've got other issues). And I guess I am considering the case when you've got a shotline and not an anchor. If the shotline gets pulled by divers or currents on the buoy manage to move it then your #24 line may hold.

I just don't understand why its so good to get back to *exactly* the spot where the anchor used to be if the anchor isn't there.... 3 minutes in a knot of current and you're already 150 feet away from that point in whichever direction the current at that depth decides to take you...

 

[limeyx]

Kevin I have a great deal of respect for you and your posts, and usually I agree with them...but I'm calling BS on this.

I dont know about 12-16 but my last boat dives in monterey (memorial day 2006 I think) were in 7-8 foot swells with the waves hitting us broadside as the wind was from the other direction.

It's the only time I have actually vomited on a boat in my life, and we still managed to get in the water.

Not something I'd like to repeat every weekend though.

 

[rjack321]

The OP referenced recreational OW dives. It seems he's just interested in maximizing the enjoyment of the dive by reliably getting back to the boat, not just in extreme situations.

In most cases the same thing can be accomplished without the hassle and entanglements of line by decent navigation. Simple. These are recreational dive boats with a ton of divers aboard. If it was a site where they'd be strewn all over the ocean most (good) captains wouldn't take 20-30 divers there in the first place. Obviously skip the bad boats. Don't take simple single tank (fun) recreational dives and overcomplicate them with line, 1/3rds for gas, blah blah.

 

[limeyx]

I just don't understand why its so good to get back to *exactly* the spot where the anchor used to be if the anchor isn't there.... 3 minutes in a knot of current and you're already 150 feet away from that point in whichever direction the current at that depth decides to take you...

Ultimately, if you have 20+ divers then it is unlikely to matter as with all the varying runtimes, people are going to be surfacing all over the place (and that is a serious serious concern here, especially on sites like the Olympic and others in that area as Lynne mentioned as they are in really busy shipping lanes). This is the exact spot where I ended up leaving my spool tied in (Pete had already lost the reel jumping in!) as everyone was suddenly using it to get home. I have lost the upline on the Moody (thankfully only at the 30 foot stop on a T1 dive) but it's not a fun experience drifting in a cruise and oil-tanker infested shipping lane, that is for sure.

Really, even if the boat comes back and resets the anchor, there are going to be problems. Which is also a problem with a shot line as a lot of people like to "hold the anchor line" on ascent/descent and that really doesnt work well with a shot line.

I dont think there really is a great solution except to drop a shot (where possible) and only dive with "experienced" divers at those spots. Then it's all about trying to decide what the acceptable risks and contingencies are.