Using A Long Hose Isn't Just For Tech Divers

[novadiver]

Just so you know I gave Nova a chance by PM to offer why he feels that new divers shouldn't use a long hose.

His reason was that I was advocating usage without proper instruction. That is his premise and he seems to be sticking by it.

Frankly I haven't seen anyone in this thread who uses a long hose advocating a newbie just jump right in the water without becoming familiar with the process of S drills or the configuration. What I made light of though in a prior post was that it was not necessary for someone to get a hypothetical PADI cert in long hose routing.

So Nova please enlighten us with all your 28 years of diving experience on why a new diver should not be trained and adopt the use of a long hose.

So far all you have done is spew the same tired and unsubstantiated rhetoric.

In my eyes you and your advice is not credible until you do so.

no . I did not say that a new diver should not be" trained" in the use of a long hose. I said they shouldn't get their training HERE

I also implied that new divers should use short hoses because there is no need to make their gear more complicated.

Also, that the long hose was developed for certain TYPES of diving and divers should research the history of were the long hose came from and determine if it's right for the way they dive.

and, that a long hose in the hands of a diver that is not properly trained is a hazard that can be avoided.

for my efforts OE2x has said my advice is not credible,it's unsubstantiated rhetoric, and I'm like a lying politician,and in the next breath he brings up my 27 years of experiance, NOW who's not credible. PLEASE

every diver throwing crap this way comes from one training org. or wants to pretend that they do.

I, on the other hand, have gotten training from most of the orgs. out there, and have taken from their training what works best for me. this has taken 27 years . I hope I get 27 more.

Credible? is for me

 

[MASS-Diver]

That's in the event of back gas failure, and btw I'd hit deco gas on an excellorated ascent all the way to the first stop. I've seen divers doing rock bottom calcs and come up with numbers like 50 cuft. on a 95 cuft tank. that's a waste, where does all this BS come from.

Rock bottom is a simple calculation that allows to leave the bottom with enough gas for you and your buddy to ascend sharing gas and still make all your stops. It's very simple and very basic. You should do a search and learn how to calculate it if you are doing team diving - again it's about as basic as it can get.

I've never heard of anyone having a problem with RB before, strange?

BTW, Rock Bottom for a 95cu' tank on a 0-60' dive would be 500psi, on a 60-100 dive it would be 700psi (in both cases this includes saftey stops). You have a problem with these numbers? Do we need to review the math?

 

[ABQ]

My first post on this board.

Seven foot hoses are of technical derivation and should NOT be use by new recreational divers UNLESS they are trained to use them from the beginning. Long hoses are NOT, as of yet, recreational standard equipment. Point: new divers should not be doing the type of diving, or ever find themelves in a OOA situation, where a 7' would be more advantagous than the standard 5'.

 

[wedivebc]

You have a problem with these numbers? Do we need to review the math?

Yes, yes

 

[detroit diver]

no . I did not say that a new diver should not be" trained" in the use of a long hose. I said they shouldn't get their training HERE

I'd like to see where you said that exactly, because that's not what I read. Every one of the posts advocating for the long hose states that a diver should be trained on it. If you actually made that clear, we woudn't have had this long disagreement.

I also implied that new divers should use short hoses because there is no need to make their gear more complicated.

It's not only not more complicated, but less complicated, and safer when you use a long hose AND ARE TRAINED FOR IT.

Also, that the long hose was developed for certain TYPES of diving and divers should research the history of were the long hose came from and determine if it's right for the way they dive.

This is the lamest of all arguements you make. The BC came from cave diving. Should we not use that either? Dual regs came from cave diving also.

and, that a long hose in the hands of a diver that is not properly trained is a hazard that can be avoided.

So is any piece of equipment that is in the hands of someone that is untrained.

....................
every diver throwing crap this way comes from one training org. or wants to pretend that they do. [\QUOTE]

And therein lies your bias. You can't get past your feelings for GUE or DIR to realize that there might be a better way. Or even agree that a skill can be accomplished by a new diver. In fact, you keep throwing up your miraculous diving history to substantiate your opinions. I learned long ago that the number of dives nor the number of years of diving makes a good diver.

I, on the other hand, have gotten traing from most of the orgs. out there, and have taken from their training what works best for me. this has taken 27 years . I hope I get 27 more.

Credible? is for me

Well, congratulations. I hope you get your 27 also. Just keep in mind that there might be a bette way to do certain things. You might learn something new.

 

[novadiver]

I've actually been a n00b diver with a long hose. All my post-BOW dives have been done with a long hose. It made it considerably *LESS* stressful the first time I got a face-full of jetfin and got my reg kicked out of my mouth. Going for the backup on the necklace was much easier than the sweep back for the primary that we were taught in my PADI BOW class.

There are more things to watch when you're gearing up, but its nothing a diver can't learn to handle really quickly. Most of the issues are uncovered by the practice of a modified S-drill before descending (again, easily learned, not a lot of stress).

It is true that it requires some practice. The first practice OOA I gave to another n00b buddy resulted in the buddy going to his necklace with his left hand first and then producing a nasty little CF with him only offering about 1/2 a foot of hose instead of 7. Things get more complicated when you've got a light or are holding anything else, particularly if your right hand is occupied when the OOA signal is given. All of these bugs can be worked out in a few dives, though.

So, yes, you need training, going out and buying a 7' hose and thinking you're being safer isn't going to work. You need to have that more experienced buddy who will notice you've suited up into some CF and will gently remind you to do a modified S-drill before descending and then help you untangle yourself. It only takes a few of those dives, though, before a diver starts using a mental checklist to suit up, starts doing modified S-drills before every dive and can benefit from the long hose.

Thanks for helping out Lamont. that's the kind of thing I was talking about.

1) you can't get kicked in the head by an ooa diver on a short hose.( unless you are really trying)
2)It does take training and practice and done wrong, will leave you with a 2 foot hose instead of 7
3) you need to do s-drills before every dive because you just don't know if it's rigged right untill you deploy it.
4) it's just not needed for MOST rec dives.( so dump that pos before it kills someone)

Or you can pose for the pictures and smile, while everyone on the boat is walking on your long hose because you didn't stow it properly

 

[OE2X]

I've seen it first hand where new divers are able to grasp the long hose technique and not have it be any more complicated than a short hose. If anything some here feel it's less so.

Frankly where the history comes from is of no consequence as to the applicability in a recreational environment.

Come on Nova - Where is the beef?

 

[MASS-Diver]

My first post on this board.

Seven foot hoses are of technical derivation and should NOT be use by new recreational divers UNLESS they are trained to use them from the beginning. Long hoses are NOT, as of yet, recreational standard equipment. Point: new divers should not be doing the type of diving, or ever find themelves in a OOA situation, where a 7' would be more advantagous than the standard 5'.

What??????? a 5' is OK, but a 7' isn't, come on, you need to take it up a level.

 

[detroit diver]

My first post on this board.

Seven foot hoses are of technical derivation and should NOT be use by new recreational divers UNLESS they are trained to use them from the beginning. Long hoses are NOT, as of yet, recreational standard equipment. Point: new divers should not be doing the type of diving, or ever find themelves in a OOA situation, where a 7' would be more advantagous than the standard 5'.

BC's and dual regs are a technical derivation. Nothing should be used unless the person using it is trained on it.

New divers often find themselves in OOA situations because they are new divers. As for the extra 2 feet, it's not critical, but it's nice to have.

 

[Jason B]

I said they shouldn't get their training HERE

then offer your services...

If your really interested using a long hose , PM me and I'll let you know the skinny...

a long hose in the hands of a diver that is not properly trained is a hazard that can be avoided

a dangling octo dangling from a trained diver is a hazard, at least we know that the long hose works.

Jason