Using A Long Hose Isn't Just For Tech Divers

[OE2X]

OK guys. I have to go along with GratefulDiver. I think it's time to take a step back. We don't allow flaming or name calling and unfortunately this thread is degenerating into only that.

My intent of this thread wasn't to have people yelling I'm better than you.

Instead I think it would be beneficial to look at what techniques can be taken from the tech community to make rec divers (such as myself) to be better and safer divers. To say that one piece of gear such as a 7' hose is too complicated of a theory for rec divers to understand is doing a disservice to the diving community as well as individual divers. Please lets not dumb the standards downward any further than they already are.

 

[OE2X]

Would that be all together for a grand totall, or has some of these people been diving for more than two years , counting baths as dives because they dipped their head under the water.

Please tell me witch divers have more than 27 years of diving, And I'll show you someone who agrees with me

FWIW - I now have thirty years. Lets put this thread back on track though...

 

[jonnythan]

I'm not taking sides here, just curious...

If you are out of air at depth, how can you be sure that your buddy isn't?

If your bungied backup is 'always on,' and a standard secondary is 'always on,' what's wrong with a pony being 'always on?'

And, again, I'm not taking sides here, just curious...

The potential is that a standard back-mounted pony can have a slow leak and be empty by the time you need to use it if you keep it on. You wouldn't know. If your main tank had a slow leak, you would know by seeing the SPG. This is a problem with having the pony always on. But then if you "charge" the system and turn it back off, you need to turn the tank back on before your buddy can breathe it.. and hope you don't blow out an O-ring or something by turning it on. This adds a step to the process.

Your buddy isn't OOA cause he's breathing

The idea is not *relying* on a pony reg to give you air in case your regulator blows apart (recently happened to a board member) leaving you without any gas. There is no way to be 100% sure that when the stuff really hits the fan and you're under 100 feet of water, that a pony reg no one has touched in 45 minutes is going to fill your lungs. You can be sure that the regulator currently in your buddy's mouth will.

 

[wedivebc]

FWIW - I now have thirty years. Lets put this thread back on track though...

Fair enough.
I teach OW while wearing bp/wings, 7 foot hose. I don't however teach OW students to grab a reg out of mine or anyone elses mouth. I don't feel that technique is appropriate for inexperienced divers.

 

[JeffG]

Lets put this thread back on track though...

Actually...Its all how you define it...

I now always dive the long hose and bungied backup...

But sometimes the long hose is 40ins, sometimes 7' (and I used to use the 5'...but that was retired and given to my brother)

 

[novadiver]

The potential is that a standard back-mounted pony can have a slow leak and be empty by the time you need to use it if you keep it on. You wouldn't know. If your main tank had a slow leak, you would know by seeing the SPG. This is a problem with having the pony always on. But then if you "charge" the system and turn it back off, you need to turn the tank back on before your buddy can breathe it.. and hope you don't blow out an O-ring or something by turning it on. This adds a step to the process.

Your buddy isn't OOA cause he's breathing

The idea is not *relying* on a pony reg to give you air in case your regulator blows apart (recently happened to a board member) leaving you without any gas. There is no way to be 100% sure that when the stuff really hits the fan and you're under 100 feet of water, that a pony reg no one has touched in 45 minutes is going to fill your lungs. You can be sure that the regulator currently in your buddy's mouth will.

I'm just going to shake my head and thank god I don't train like this.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I use the 7' hose only in cave or overhead dives, with the secondary on the necklace. In open water OOA practice, I find that I WANT the OOA diver close to me. On my open water rigs the regulators are on 5' hoses, and I consider EACH to be used for air sharing at any given time.

I think that what some folks are failing to see is that any rig you choose involves trade-offs ... and the one that's "best" for any given individual is the one that works best for "them" given the type of diving that they're doing.

For me that happens to be a Hog rig ... for someone else doing the same diving, given their training, background, and preferences, it may be something else.

FWIW - I had a recent opportunity to bring an almost OOA, semi-competent diver up from a 97' depth while sharing air. At no point did the use of the long hose restrict me from staying close to this individual ... that's what the situation called for because he was in no way competent to be attempting an open-water ascent on his own. Frankly, he didn't belong on this dive but that's another story.

The point is that if this had been a different individual ... one who was competent to control his own buoyancy on a free ascent from depth ... I would've also had the option to release his BCD strap and give him the freedom of motion to control his own ascent. I've had occasion to do that as well, and it's quite a bit more comfortable and less complicated than the "traditional" OOA ascent that we're all taught in BOW class.

I haven't experienced the entanglement hazards, panicked diver head-kick, or any of the other horrible scenarios I've read about in this thread. Frankly, if I had I wouldn't consider that I had followed my own training in terms of controlling the situation. That has nothing to do with the choice of rig ... it has to do with how I respond to the situation.

Bottom line is that the longer regulator hose gives me more options. How I use those options is really up to me. With a shorter rig, I wouldn't have as many choices to adapt to the situation.

So, for me, that's reason enough for the gear choices I've made. If yours are different that's OK ... I'll respect your reasons for making them. But please, try to show a little respect for mine as well ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lamont]

Fair enough.
I teach OW while wearing bp/wings, 7 foot hose. I don't however teach OW students to grab a reg out of mine or anyone elses mouth. I don't feel that technique is appropriate for inexperienced divers.

I did my 4 BOW dives on a standard config. Every dive since then has been on a long hose. I would disagree about it not being appropriate for inexperienced divers.

 

[OE2X]

Fair enough.
I teach OW while wearing bp/wings, 7 foot hose. I don't however teach OW students to grab a reg out of mine or anyone elses mouth. I don't feel that technique is appropriate for inexperienced divers.

Dave - I'm sure your students are very fortunate. It's good that they don't learn to grab the reg. Communication is key in buddy skills.

Would you agree with me that storage and deployment of a long hose 40",5' or 7' is not rocket science and that even new OW students can understand and practice this technique?

 

[wedivebc]

The potential is that a standard back-mounted pony can have a slow leak and be empty by the time you need to use it if you keep it on. You wouldn't know. If your main tank had a slow leak, you would know by seeing the SPG. This is a problem with having the pony always on. But then if you "charge" the system and turn it back off, you need to turn the tank back on before your buddy can breathe it.. and hope you don't blow out an O-ring or something by turning it on. This adds a step to the process.

Since I was the one who first mentioned pony bottle I need to address this. I did not say back mounted pony, and I don't like anything back mounted except my main gas supply. A front mounted pony is no more of a failure point than any other tank/reg combo and has the advantage of being able to pass it off to an OOA diver if need be. It could also remain attached if the situation warranted, like a new student you wanted to maintain control of. This isn't that hard of a skill to learn boys and girls.