Use of hands when diving.

[DevonDiver]

Well now ... that depends on circumstances. Inside wrecks and caves is sometimes a legitimate place to use your hands ... for pulling and gliding. But that is really situational, as it depends on the conditions as well as what you're proposing to grab ahold of. Using pull and glide will often depend on whether or not you CAN use your fins, and whether or not the surface structure allows it ... clay walls or encrusted surfaces just fall apart if you grab them.

Good point. And just to clarify.. I was describing the use of hands for 'sculling', rather than 'pull and glide'.

... because to those who use their hands, saying you shouldn't feels like an insult ...

Yep, and there seems to be some bruised egos already on this thread.

I'd be interested to know whether those defending the use of hands/sculling for control underwater do so by choice, or because of an inability to maneouvre equally as effectively using their fins alone.

Personally, I can see no reason why someone would choose to use their hands, when the option of finning control for turns or backwards motion was available to them. Just saying....

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I think that most novice divers have an instinctive tendancy to try and 'swim' underwater. Who can blame them? They spend years swimming with both their hands and feet

This one sure rings true for me. I love to swim! And while I probably would never have started to swim the crawl underwater, my usual/favorite stroke is the breast stroke, and so it seemed perfectly natural - and fun - to use it while diving too. Of course I also tended to use my hands a lot for stability at first (as things were not at all settled in the trim/weighting/rig department), but over and above that I just wanted to SWIM! I soon found out that this was not the preferred normal mode of dive propulsion :blush: so I save swimming for other occasions.

When diving inside wrecks or caves, this can present an actual danger to the diver

I have actually been meaning to start a thread on "hands" and wrecks, but maybe I can slip my question in here, since the topic is "use of hands when diving."

So, although I did tend to "swim" when I began diving, that never translated to touching anything. I had done a lot of snorkeling in the tropics before I learned to dive, and "don't touch anything!" was (and is) firmly lodged in my psyche.

But then when I took a wreck class, the instructor repeatedly asked (admonished?) me to use the wreck to propel myself with my hands. His reasoning (which I can't fault from an efficiency standpoint) was that divers will use much less energy/gas if they pull themselves along/up/down whenever possible. I found that I had a mental block about grabbing onto the wreck. I know it's not a "living" reef, but still, there are living organisms on it, and I was picturing how much less it would feel like "exploring" a wreck if there were giant, worn bare spots wherever people commonly grabbed (rails, door-frames, etc.).

I suppose there are times one HAS to grab on (high current, maybe very low vis). These dives were in excellent vis (40+') and had no current. So, my questions:

1) Is it general "best practice" to grab parts of the wreck to propel oneself (rails, door-frames, etc.) when conditions are mild (good vis, no current)?

2) Same question but low vis and/or stronger current.

3) I guess what I'm asking in both questions is whether one should only grab/touch the wreck when one "has" to; or whether it is supposed to be just an every-day/every-dive practice and "no big deal."

In my case since I wasn't sure I didn't grab the wreck and just used my fins. I still came up with more gas than my buddy, so although I'm sure I would have used less energy if I had grabbed not finned, it didn't seem to make a huge difference in calm conditions. I'm sure in high current it probably WOULD make a big difference (I did try one "grab and pull" when the instructor asked me too, and yes, I could see that it was very energy efficient).

Thanks for everyone's insight. I just want to make sure I'm treating the wrecks well

Blue Sparkle

 

[Rhone Man]

There is an interesting sub-question that arises - assuming you are one of those who don't use your hands to scull, where do you normally keep them whilst not engaged? When I am not carrying stage bottles, I actually like to grip the underside of my tank(s). I find it gives me a little bit of back support.

I have sent lots of arms folded across chests, some tucked in by the sides, a few superman impersonations, and one memorable former dive buddy who used to keep them crossed out in front of him like a fender.

 

[Rhone Man]

3) I guess what I'm asking in both questions is whether one should only grab/touch the wreck when one "has" to; or whether it is supposed to be just an every-day/every-dive practice and "no big deal."

We have a very old historical wreck in the BVI, and I always brought up to never touch the wreck, ostensibly to preserve it. I suspect divers in the Great Lakes with wooden wrecks have the same approach.

Pretty much everywhere else I have dived in the world, I see wrecks being treated as expendable. People often drag a grapnel across it a few times until it catches, before going down and to tie in. Plenty of places in the world, it is still common practice to remove chunks of the wreck, often with considerable violence, for keepsakes.

Not passing judgment, but just sayin'.

Probably should split this topic into a new thread.

 

[AfterDark]

Relax. Nobody is telling you how dive. You have an opinion and you are entitled to it.

Your advice, if read by novice divers, sucks though.. and is contrary to what any responsible dive instructor would teach a student. It wouldn't pass muster on one of my entry-level courses.... which may, or may not, speak volumes.

Keep on paddling

I couldn't be more relaxed unless I was diving.

Your right nobody is telling me how to dive.

Your right again sorry, I thought we were in the Advanced Scuba Discussions.

Wrong there I don't paddle. I'm just not afraid to use my hands now then.

Rhone Man, I usually hold my console or light in my left hand and my camera in my right. All are on retractors so I can let go to fail my hands around when I see a diver swimming by with their arms folded.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I have no problem with using hands for turns, if available. Often a diver's hands are occupied with camera gear, a buddy's hand, or something else. The point of "no hands" is that if you have neutral buoyancy, they are not necessary. That leaves hands free to point, to communicated by signs, or hold a camera or video.
Divemaster Dennis

 

[TSandM]

Where do I put my hands when I'm diving:

I can't get this kind of shoulder position without discomfort:

 

[EastTNDiver]

There is an interesting sub-question that arises - assuming you are one of those who don't use your hands to scull, where do you normally keep them whilst not engaged? When I am not carrying stage bottles, I actually like to grip the underside of my tank(s). I find it gives me a little bit of back support.

I have sent lots of arms folded across chests, some tucked in by the sides, a few superman impersonations, and one memorable former dive buddy who used to keep them crossed out in front of him like a fender.

If I'm diving dry, I have my hands lightly clasped out in front of me because it's a very good way to help manage trim. If I'm diving wet, then I usually hook my thumbs in my harness at my chest. Of course, all of this is assuming I don't have a camera or light in my hands.

As for hand use while diving, if some of the posters in this thread ever saw my 15-year old son, they'd probably have a coronary. He doesn't use his hands because he has to...he just likes to play. He'll be finning along nice and smooth, and all of a sudden you'll see him mimicking the exaggerated motions of cartoon characters swimming underwater. He's just having fun, and usually burns less air than I do. When he enters something like a swim-thru, you'll get a very good idea of just how natural he is with his bouyancy and trim. He just doesn't get all uptight, and likes to have a little of his own style of fun while he's underwater. I've not yet seen any reason to deny him that fun, and in fact, I sometimes join him in his antics and we both get a little goofy. My drysuit buddy got a big kick outta me the last time we were in the local quarry practicing skills, as I took off using a dolphin style stroke with both fins pinned together. It must have looked quite comical in my drysuit and semi-tech rig.

 

[seaducer]

I use my hands alot, but for very specific reasons. If I am diving at the aquarium I volunteer for, and I am close to the acrylic, I use my hands. They are soft and will not mar the very expensive and next to impossilble to replace acrylic viewing panels. I also use my hands in some of the tighter spaces I get into where I cannot get a decent thrusting move with fins.

That being said in enough space I use my hands to hold things, check guages, communicate, scratch, clear my mask, etc. I use fins and lungs for almost all my position and direction changes.

Thanks to You Tube and some better posts here I have taught myself how to back kick and helicopter turn. As a photographer I find this instrumental, not only can I make fine positional corrections with my feet so I can concentrate my hands on my camera, but all the movement is more than 6 feet away from my subject, with me in between. I spook less critters and stir up nothing. Oh...I hit the reef alot less than I used to, maybe once or twice per 100 dives.

Using your hands for moving is not all bad, it just depends on where you are and what you are doing.

I agree with the sentiment that people should strive to impove their skills, but alas a great many people are satisfied with doing as little as possible to get by. As a union worker I am surrounded by this mentality daily, and it burns.

I suppose though I shouldn't complain about a hobby or recreation. To probably the majority of divers, diving is not that important in their lives. Perhaps they focus their energy to improve in some other activity. If I constantly strived for perfection in everything I did, I would not have the time to do very much. So diving and a select few other hobbies get all that effort, and the rest of the things I enjoy I do so at a perpetual beginner's level.

As long as you are not hurting someone or something else, whatever sinks your boat...you have to live with you, the rest of us don't...

 

[Thalassamania]

As far as turns and such are concerned I don't know that helicopter turns are more efficient (how are we measuring efficiency?). The absolute prohibition is fine for scuba dressage, but it does keep you on your toes for when your hands are occupied with gear (hand finning with a goodman can be a bit confusing to the rest of your team).