Use of hands when diving.

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Speak for yourself.

I can helicopter turn 360 degrees, on-the-spot, in a heartbeat.

I can also do that whilst holding a camera, deploying a DSMB, or within the enclosed space of wreck - whilst running a line.

So can many other divers... many of them with a fraction of your experience :eyebrow:



With the mindset that you display in your posts.... probably. :idk:

It kinda strikes me as odd, that in 2000 dives, you didn't pick up such a simple skill set.

All I said was this fixation on not using hands is BS. Until we’ve dived together you should refrain from commenting about something of which you know nothing, about namely my skills. I manage just fine diving solo at night holding a light and a camera. I’ll continue to dive the way I want to and enjoy myself doing it. Everyone else can wringe their hands about using their hands.
 
In any sport there are beginner skills and advanced skills. The idea (for me anyway) is to progress into the advanced skill set, and away from the beginner ones.

If someone wants to participate in their chosen sport for years while still hanging on to the beginner skills, that's OK with me...... They'll have years worth of beginner level experience.
Just don't try and convince me that I don't need to adopt the advanced skills, just because you've rejected them.

If you ski and want to rack up hundreds of green runs, knock yourself out. part of the enjoyment of any sport is advancing the skill set. I'd rather ski black and double black.

Beginner sea kayakers use much different, and less efficient paddling techniques than the more advanced paddlers.
They'll never develop a more efficient, smooth, and enjoyable paddling technique if they don't pay attention to better techniques. It takes thinking about it, and actively working on it.

Mention any technique that pertains to diving and there is no shortage of people on this board that will instantly appear and pitch the idea that progressing toward the better skill set is not necessary. They'll then continue on attempting to convince everyone that they shouldn't even bother.

Swim with your hands if you want to......but there are better techniques. You just have to actively work on them.

-Mitch
 
Propulsion is technique based like any other form of movement or interaction. Some have better technique than others. At the end of the day it does not matter how you move through the water. Take Jim Furyk’s wing, it looks “funny” or awkward but gets the job done. Is hand action pretty, efficient or does it reduces drag??? I don’t think so, but it does get the job done.

I do however believe that divers should strive to become better at what they do. Life is about self improvement and personal growth on all fronts.

My 2 cents.
 
Arms can be where ever the diver is comfortable. With new divers, I practically threaten to tie-wrap their thumbs together because the moment they start finning with their hands they immediately STOP finning with their fins. Feet drop, head goes up and all of a sudden they are moving up fast in the water column. I see it every time they start using their hands. I loop my thumbs through the D-rings on my BCD, my wife slips her hands under her tank in the small of her back, and my fellow instructor holds his hands directly in front of him. WHERE you put your hands is a matter of comfort, but I am rabid about my students NOT using them. Even kneeling on the bottom of the pool, I teach them to hold their hands in front of them.
 
kazbanz:
Hey guys something that puzzles me a bit is the fixation on never using your hands for "finning'.

Seems to me it would be pretty difficult, if not impossible to cut fins off sharks if you didn't use your hands. I don't really know as I have never finned and discourage the practice.
 
Pull and glide with your hands past bulkheads inside a wreck where even a high frog kick will stir up silt; push yourself away from your teammate ("patty cake push-off") for spacing during a deco stop or when prepping SMB deployment; scull your arms if you have to on initial descent, if you find you're starting to rotate over on a headstand (happens sometimes with two deco bottles clipped on). . .

Like he said, sometimes pull and glide is better or required like in a restriction of high current area over a ridge or wreck.

On some wrecks on the outside I can pull myself along faster than trying to swim, inside I will many times bend my knees like for a high kick but cross my ankles to keep my fins still and fingertip walk through the wreck. Anyone trying to swim with their fins inside a Sub/U-boat will find that it just will not work due to the tight overhead restrictions and fins only bring down the rust onto you faster.

Get neutral, get your breathing under control and steady, and pull and glide using your fingers/hands choosing the places to make contact.
First rule on wrecks is that there are no hard and fast rules, each wreck is different; use what works for you and the goal of your dive.
 
All I said was this fixation on not using hands is BS. Until we’ve dived together you should refrain from commenting about something of which you know nothing, about namely my skills. I manage just fine diving solo at night holding a light and a camera. I’ll continue to dive the way I want to and enjoy myself doing it. Everyone else can wringe their hands about using their hands.

Relax. Nobody is telling you how dive. You have an opinion and you are entitled to it.

Your advice, if read by novice divers, sucks though.. and is contrary to what any responsible dive instructor would teach a student. It wouldn't pass muster on one of my entry-level courses.... which may, or may not, speak volumes.

Keep on paddling :D
 
I think that most novice divers have an instinctive tendancy to try and 'swim' underwater. Who can blame them? They spend years swimming with both their hands and feet, but have to re-learn technique when they transition to diving in fins.
Exactly ... you're dealing with "learned" behavior, and it takes some conscious effort to change what you've learned in the past. In order to do this you have to understand why it matters that you change it.

Added to that are the natural tendancies for novice divers to feel 'unstable' in the water. Use of the hands often represents an attempt to 'balance' in the water column. Obviously, there is no actual 'need' to balance underwater... and as experience develops (plus better trim of their equipment), the diver graduates out of this tendancy. It comes with relaxation.
Well ... I think it's more accurate to say that as experience develops, the diver graduates out of the "need" for this tendency. The problem is that ingrained habits become unconscious behavior, and divers will often continue the behavior well past their perceived "need" for it simply because it's something they've always done.

The biggest problem with developing sloppy habits is that once they become ingrained, they're much more difficult to "unlearn".

There are a number of reasons why over-use of the hands for propulsion and control can be negative for a diver. The primary one is that it is an inefficient physiological method, that ultimately requires more O2 metabolization in the body and, hence, more air consumption. It also decreases streamlining and increases water turbulance, slowing the diver.
Ah ... someone finally brings up the most desireable reason to give a new diver when they ask why they shouldn't use their hands ... because it forces you to use up your air faster. You're generating more body movements and creating a larger surface area that needs to push water out of your way to move forward. Both of those things cause you to breathe harder.

Wanna improve your air consumption? Great ... consider what it takes to reduce the amount of work you're doing while diving. Limited use of the hands may be justified under certain conditions. Habitual use of the hands just burns calories with very low return on investment.

In addition, the use of hands can lead to silting/bottom disturbance. When diving inside wrecks or caves, this can present an actual danger to the diver. In other situations, it will simply lead to a deterioration of the quality of the dive, as visibility is lowered. For underwater photographers, it can lead to filling photos with backscatter/particles and also scare away the target of their photo.
Well now ... that depends on circumstances. Inside wrecks and caves is sometimes a legitimate place to use your hands ... for pulling and gliding. But that is really situational, as it depends on the conditions as well as what you're proposing to grab ahold of. Using pull and glide will often depend on whether or not you CAN use your fins, and whether or not the surface structure allows it ... clay walls or encrusted surfaces just fall apart if you grab them.

There are also many activites underwater that require the use of the hands for other purposes. Cave/Wreck divers will be using torches and lines. The hands won't be available for sculling. Photographers and videographers will also have their hands full.
If you want to take pictures (at least, if you want to get good at it), then learning how to maneuver without using your hands is an absolutely essential skill.

It is absolutely fair to view the limitation of the use of hands for propulsion/control as a 'best practice' mentality in scuba diving. A responsible instructor will communicate the reasons for this to their students and help them, through drills and practice, to develop appropriate scuba techniques that do not utilise the hands. Divers who do over-use their hands on dives may be judged appropriately by their peers and dive pros - it is seen as a mark of inexperience.

The simple fact is: you don't need to use your hands for control or propusion underwater. There are drawbacks to doing so...and techniques that exist which allow better function using the fins alone.

Eliminating a reliance on your hands for sculling requires some dedication to perfecting proper techniques.
I completely agree ... as with most things, eliminating the need for hand sculling is essential for a diver who is serious about developing good habits. That doesn't necessarily mean that you won't ever consider doing it ... but that you will consider it based on circumstances. Think of it like a tool that, as you develop other techniques, gets used less and less often ... because you have better "tools" at your disposal.

I find it hard to understand why some posters in this thread would discourage such a mentality!?!
... because to those who use their hands, saying you shouldn't feels like an insult ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I can helicopter turn 360 degrees, on-the-spot, in a heartbeat.

I can also do that whilst holding a camera, deploying a DSMB, or within the enclosed space of wreck - whilst running a line.

So can many other divers... many of them with a fraction of your experience :eyebrow:
See AfterDark!! THAT's what I'm talking about!! Here is someone who is clearly committed to winning and obviously deserves to be in the scuba olympics winner's circle.
With the mindset that you display in your posts.... probably. :idk:

It kinda strikes me as odd, that in 2000 dives, you didn't pick up such a simple skill set.
Excellent point. I think AfterDark really needs to re-think this whole diving thing. If he hasn't learned to dive the correct way yet, maybe he should take up competitive walking or some other sport that similarly devoid of proper rules.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom