Upgrading AL DA Aqua Master
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No BC is great but for those times you need a BC nothing beats a wing. To answer your question, the pony is a 19cf. I rarely use it except for solo at depths below about 80 feet or demanding conditions.
I probably did half my dives last year with no BC, the remainder, due to dive boat regulations or other cirumstances required a BC, I used that pony for example on the Oriskany this past spring because I was on a single tank (required by the LDS, doubles are tech, single dive only) and the 140 foot plus depths are a bit much even for a 100cf.
The Oxy wings are great for double hose, they are great for single hose, they are the best. The custom Freedom Plate is the best also, to bad, those are kinda hard to come by. The Oxy Cheq Ultra Light plate is kinda fun, it is fabric. Not sure how long it will last but it dives great when coupled with the Oxy Mach V 18.
JFYI, it does not matter if the wing overlaps the regulator as long as the elbow is offset (as on an Oxy). You rarely fill a wing completely and even if you need to the wing will accomodate the regulator. Like many old time divers, I rarely even use the wing, even when I wear it, maybe a puff or two of air at the most, if any. I am thinking to remove the power inflator on my Ultralight/Mach V 18 rig to reduce complexity and rid myself of a LP hose. I will orally inflate as we did in the good old days.
N
I probably did half my dives last year with no BC, the remainder, due to dive boat regulations or other cirumstances required a BC, I used that pony for example on the Oriskany this past spring because I was on a single tank (required by the LDS, doubles are tech, single dive only) and the 140 foot plus depths are a bit much even for a 100cf.
The Oxy wings are great for double hose, they are great for single hose, they are the best. The custom Freedom Plate is the best also, to bad, those are kinda hard to come by. The Oxy Cheq Ultra Light plate is kinda fun, it is fabric. Not sure how long it will last but it dives great when coupled with the Oxy Mach V 18.
JFYI, it does not matter if the wing overlaps the regulator as long as the elbow is offset (as on an Oxy). You rarely fill a wing completely and even if you need to the wing will accomodate the regulator. Like many old time divers, I rarely even use the wing, even when I wear it, maybe a puff or two of air at the most, if any. I am thinking to remove the power inflator on my Ultralight/Mach V 18 rig to reduce complexity and rid myself of a LP hose. I will orally inflate as we did in the good old days.
N
Below are the thumbnails for both single and double tank "modern" double hose reg configurations.
The single tank set up uses a standard Dive Rite back plate and harness with a Halcyon 28 lb Pioneer wing and a single tank adapter. The doubles set up has the same backplate and harness with a 40ish lb Dive Rite Rec Wing. Weight pockets on the harness make it flexible as to suit, tanks, etc.
Halcyon no longer makes the Pioneer wing, but the Halcyon Eclipse is a very similar double bladder design in both 30 and 40 lb versions. Single tank wings for the most part will have the inflator elbow offset to the left to ensure it does not get in the way of the valve. Double tank wings for the most part have the elbow in the center to again avoid interference with the regs on right and left posts. The Dive Rite Rec wing works well for double hose diving as it is a dual purpose wing that has the elbow offset slightly to the left coincidentally providing clearance for a double hose reg in the center.
The reg is my PRAM with an Aqualung Conshelf XI Second stage, a low pressure inflator hose and a drysuit inflator hose.
You may notice on the single tank wing that it also has an Air 2. That is a good option for a modern double hose diver if all you have is one LP port on your double hose reg (for example with a DA Aquamaster or Royal Aquamaster using an LP adapter on the hookah port) and want both an octo and an inflator.
The PRAM allows the use of an SPG on the reg itself. On a normal double hose reg with no HP fitting, you can use a banjo fitting (if you have a long yoke) to accommodate an SPG or use a vintage J or K tank valve that has a 3/8" HP port built into the valve. Banjo fittings used to run around $100 but now that reproductions are available you can get one for about $30.00.
Another thing to note is that the STA is mounted very high on the tank so that the can on the reg just clears the top of the plate. That requires the cam band to go through the middle slot as the upper one is above the tank shoulder.
With the double tank, I am using a vintage manifold that lets me mount the reg under the crossbar. It puts the reg about 2" lower when mounted and lets the tanks be 2" higher than normal while still keeping the reg right at the top of the plate. That helps both the trim of the tanks and solves the problem of not being able to move the bands any higher on the tanks.
In both cases the harness can be adjusted to keep the reg down between your shoulder blades.
The D-rings on the harness itself are very functional. The octo can be clipped to the left hip D-ring using an O-ring to secure a bolt snap to either the hose or mouthpiece. The SPG can be clipped to the right hip O-ring using either an O-ring or cave line to secure it to a boltsnap. The left shoulder and left hip D-rings can also be used to sling a pony bottle if you want a redundant air source.
The single tank set up uses a standard Dive Rite back plate and harness with a Halcyon 28 lb Pioneer wing and a single tank adapter. The doubles set up has the same backplate and harness with a 40ish lb Dive Rite Rec Wing. Weight pockets on the harness make it flexible as to suit, tanks, etc.
Halcyon no longer makes the Pioneer wing, but the Halcyon Eclipse is a very similar double bladder design in both 30 and 40 lb versions. Single tank wings for the most part will have the inflator elbow offset to the left to ensure it does not get in the way of the valve. Double tank wings for the most part have the elbow in the center to again avoid interference with the regs on right and left posts. The Dive Rite Rec wing works well for double hose diving as it is a dual purpose wing that has the elbow offset slightly to the left coincidentally providing clearance for a double hose reg in the center.
The reg is my PRAM with an Aqualung Conshelf XI Second stage, a low pressure inflator hose and a drysuit inflator hose.
You may notice on the single tank wing that it also has an Air 2. That is a good option for a modern double hose diver if all you have is one LP port on your double hose reg (for example with a DA Aquamaster or Royal Aquamaster using an LP adapter on the hookah port) and want both an octo and an inflator.
The PRAM allows the use of an SPG on the reg itself. On a normal double hose reg with no HP fitting, you can use a banjo fitting (if you have a long yoke) to accommodate an SPG or use a vintage J or K tank valve that has a 3/8" HP port built into the valve. Banjo fittings used to run around $100 but now that reproductions are available you can get one for about $30.00.
Another thing to note is that the STA is mounted very high on the tank so that the can on the reg just clears the top of the plate. That requires the cam band to go through the middle slot as the upper one is above the tank shoulder.
With the double tank, I am using a vintage manifold that lets me mount the reg under the crossbar. It puts the reg about 2" lower when mounted and lets the tanks be 2" higher than normal while still keeping the reg right at the top of the plate. That helps both the trim of the tanks and solves the problem of not being able to move the bands any higher on the tanks.
In both cases the harness can be adjusted to keep the reg down between your shoulder blades.
The D-rings on the harness itself are very functional. The octo can be clipped to the left hip D-ring using an O-ring to secure a bolt snap to either the hose or mouthpiece. The SPG can be clipped to the right hip O-ring using either an O-ring or cave line to secure it to a boltsnap. The left shoulder and left hip D-rings can also be used to sling a pony bottle if you want a redundant air source.
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DA Aquamaster:
Excellent information, thanks! That doubles rig is quite interesting, particularly the plumbing.
It's interesting that you recommend the Air 2 type devices considering the disdain heaped on them by the SB community. Personally, I have had one on my SeaQuest ADVi since '88 and I always liked the thing. I don't have one on my DSS BP/W but, in thinking about it, that configuration might be a little closer to 'vintage' in that there is no separate, obvious, octo. Great idea!
I am waiting on the Phoenix nozzles to get in stock. But I can now see the alternatives should I want to do something different later on.
This double hose concept just gets better and better!
Again, thanks for all the help.
Richard
Excellent information, thanks! That doubles rig is quite interesting, particularly the plumbing.
It's interesting that you recommend the Air 2 type devices considering the disdain heaped on them by the SB community. Personally, I have had one on my SeaQuest ADVi since '88 and I always liked the thing. I don't have one on my DSS BP/W but, in thinking about it, that configuration might be a little closer to 'vintage' in that there is no separate, obvious, octo. Great idea!
I am waiting on the Phoenix nozzles to get in stock. But I can now see the alternatives should I want to do something different later on.
This double hose concept just gets better and better!
Again, thanks for all the help.
Richard
Just for the record I go rougue on the "wear your tank low" stuff. My experiments show that to be a dubious at best recomendation. It is important that the tank and regulator be as close to the back as possible but assuming decent horizontal trim the tank positioning fore and aft along the divers torso is not as important. If you can get the top of the can at the base of the neck, that works just fine. Note, I am talking about diving with a wing. If you do a horsecollar BC which tends to put you at an angle head up then having the tank a bit more rearward can be helpful.
My "Nemrod Mod" on the Dive Rite STA allows you to wear your tank correctly for any sort of diving, the typical tech plate has the tank to high, that may be fasionable but it is still poor placement.
Tank positioning, as I said, the diagram below is problematic. You do not need to wear the tank this low if you can trim horizontal in the water. Since some wings actually tend to put you slightly head low you get the picture, that said, this is a good starting point, about the center of the shoulder or slightly higher. Some vintage divers think if that is good then they will lower their tanks until they drag behind them smacking their calves as they swim and that must be even better. Not needed and in fact detrimental, especially to good trim.
Also, my Twin 50s, note dual regulators.
N <-- wings are the thing, poodle jacket free zone
My "Nemrod Mod" on the Dive Rite STA allows you to wear your tank correctly for any sort of diving, the typical tech plate has the tank to high, that may be fasionable but it is still poor placement.
Tank positioning, as I said, the diagram below is problematic. You do not need to wear the tank this low if you can trim horizontal in the water. Since some wings actually tend to put you slightly head low you get the picture, that said, this is a good starting point, about the center of the shoulder or slightly higher. Some vintage divers think if that is good then they will lower their tanks until they drag behind them smacking their calves as they swim and that must be even better. Not needed and in fact detrimental, especially to good trim.
Also, my Twin 50s, note dual regulators.
N <-- wings are the thing, poodle jacket free zone
If you take a look at this thread you will find some pictures of rigs that I put together to use with wings for some tech classes I just took recently.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/vi...atest-technical-diving-regulator-phoenix.html
Both the singles rig and the doubles rig worked great.
For the singles rig I used a vintage style backpack with a Oxycheq wing.
For the doubles rig I used a Zeagle U shaped wing attached directly to the tank and a semi-vintage style harness. I personally prefer a basic harness with no backpack or back-plate for double tanks. Finding the Zeagle wing (it is a replacement part to one of their set ups) and being able to adapt it was great. IMO this set up was fantastic.
I also use a simple BC vest (Genesis Cayman) that contains a vintage style backpack and therefore it was easily modified to use a mostly vintage style harness. The vest by itself does not control the tank well, but taking the shoulder straps to the backpack makes it as good as any harness. This unit came with a vintage style waist belt.
I do subscribe to wearing my regulator very close to my shoulder blades. I don't restrict myself to only diving in perfectly horizontal position. It only takes a very minute slope and the lower tank position does help to keep the regulator at the same level are the inner ear (where humans detect any differential pressure). In order to look forward you have to have a slight slope anyway since the human neck can only rotate up about 45 degrees. While swimming, if I need to look forward (and not down at a 45 degree) I often arch my back a bit to keep my legs horizontal.
I just like a keep an open mind about many different rigs and I also keep an open mind about different diving positions.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/vi...atest-technical-diving-regulator-phoenix.html
Both the singles rig and the doubles rig worked great.
For the singles rig I used a vintage style backpack with a Oxycheq wing.
For the doubles rig I used a Zeagle U shaped wing attached directly to the tank and a semi-vintage style harness. I personally prefer a basic harness with no backpack or back-plate for double tanks. Finding the Zeagle wing (it is a replacement part to one of their set ups) and being able to adapt it was great. IMO this set up was fantastic.
I also use a simple BC vest (Genesis Cayman) that contains a vintage style backpack and therefore it was easily modified to use a mostly vintage style harness. The vest by itself does not control the tank well, but taking the shoulder straps to the backpack makes it as good as any harness. This unit came with a vintage style waist belt.
I do subscribe to wearing my regulator very close to my shoulder blades. I don't restrict myself to only diving in perfectly horizontal position. It only takes a very minute slope and the lower tank position does help to keep the regulator at the same level are the inner ear (where humans detect any differential pressure). In order to look forward you have to have a slight slope anyway since the human neck can only rotate up about 45 degrees. While swimming, if I need to look forward (and not down at a 45 degree) I often arch my back a bit to keep my legs horizontal.
I just like a keep an open mind about many different rigs and I also keep an open mind about different diving positions.
halocline
Contributor
I bought a DA aquamaster today so it looks like I'm getting into the double hose world as well. I knew it was a matter of time. Aside from the real advantages of the extra ports and the stable IP throughout the supply range, is there any big difference between the way an original DA breathes and one that's been upgraded with the phoenix? I'm hoping to get mine working to see how I like diving double hose first, then if I enjoy it, go for the phoenix and probably re-chroming. I guess what I'm wondering is, will I get a good idea of how it breathes without the phoenix upgrade? I'm assuming I'm going to replace the 2nd stage diaphragm, duckbill, and check valves (and wagon wheels) right away.
Luis, thanks for the info and help getting started!
Luis, thanks for the info and help getting started!
If you take a look at this thread ---
I just like a keep an open mind about many different rigs and I also keep an open mind about different diving positions.
Me too and that is why, A.) I have been diving a wing/BP since the mid 70s and B.) I decided to do some experimentation, practical experimentation and I came to a number of conclusions, they are mine, I force them on no one, which are 1.) the inner ear is not directly related to this subject but I cannot try any ears but mine so I cannot conclude my results are universal and 2.) keeping the regulator as close as possible to the back is good, pushing the tank down to excessivly low positons destroys trim and gains little or nothing in breathing performance. I like to rig for an optimal postion because as stated, diving does not take place ONLY in a horizontal positon, but much of it does.
It is my belief, owning several tech plates, that divers now are just the opposite, they tend to wear their tanks much to high resulting in tanks banging heads, poor trim, head down postion, instability and this coupled with the typical tech plate sitting the singles tank rather high on the bent ridge only exacerbates the problems.
The diagram I included in the previous post is a good starting point, your physic (body type and size) and equipment and diving style will dictate from there the optimal positioning. I don't panic if it is an inch or so higher. I do draw the line with the tank hitting my head as is the fashion now. The extended length of the Phoenix nozzle to some extent negates the "low tank" thing.
Why so high with the typical bent tech plate, the big deal is to be able to reach the valves, ho hum, important with doubles if diving in overhead, not so important with a single in open water. Just reach back and lift the tank and then reach over and behind with the other hand to the valve, big deal. Just my thoughts, others may vary for good reasons.
N
The DA has an unbalaced first stage, the Phoenix and Royal Aqua Master have essentially a Conshelf/Titan first which is balanced. The IP will rise with a DA as tank pressure goes lower so it is a little more challenging to really tune a DA to the max. It will start off with a full tank slightly more difficult to breath from and as tank pressure falls will get easier. If you set the regulator up for minimum effort with a full tank it may free flow at low tank pressures. The balanced first stage design (of the Royal) does not suffer from this deficit and has a much more stable IP. Many of us use higher than original IPs in our Royals (and Phoenix) because the stable IP allows us to cut a fine edge when tuning. I have used IPs as high as 160, spec is 135 and I now set around 140 to 150 with a RAM.
Yes, a nicely tuned DA with silicone replacements and some expert tuning should yield a very nice regulator that should get you the feel for twin hose diving. The seat and volcano orifice for the DA is in slightly short supply but it sounds like vdh will have some new ones next year. The Phoenix and Royal of course use the Titan seat. The Royal, Voit Navy and DA all use the same body, cans, second stage parts. Screwing a RAM (or Phoenix nozzle) nozzle into a DA makes it a Royal Aqua Master mechanically.
N
I think we agree on placement, the difference may be terminilogy of between the shoulder blades versus base of the neck. Looks like the same spot on the picture to me.
I also agree many divers using plates wear the tank too high emulating what is needed for technical diving in order to reach the valves. The band locations and plate location end up being significantly different on my technical doubles versus my double hose doubles.
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