Update - Linnea Mills Drysuit Fatality - No Criminal Charges

[pauldw]

So what's left for us to do? Throw soup on the door of the federal building?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So what's left for us to do? Throw soup on the door of the federal building?

I'm waiting for the outcome of the trial (if any). I figured everyone else was doing the same.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I'm curious what kind of intent would have to be proven for Criminal Endangerment or Negligent Homicide? Sorry--the last time "intent" crossed my path was in law school many years ago, but as I recall, crimes all require proving some sort of intent. Yes?

No lawyer, but vehicular homicide (i.e., getting drunk and running over a family in a crosswalk, as happened in my fair city a few years ago) doesn't really have "intent" to kill. But it does involve an illegal component (drunk driving, or driving recklessly while sober) that results in death. So there may be intent to drive drunk, if not run people over.


It's clear the instructor "intended" to illegally engage in a commercial activity in a park without a permit. Beyond that, they "intended" to allow patently unsafe diving to occur (e.g., no inflator hose on a drysuit). Is that intentional negligence? I don't know, that's far all you lawyers to sort out.
Here's what boggles my mind as a legal layperson: I take students out in murky Puget Sound. A student who loses buoyancy control while I'm leading a dive might just get away without my immediately noticing. Insert scenario that fits here, e.g., checking bearing on my compass, checking air on another student, swimming over to light up some cool creature under a ledge, or dealing with another student having an emergency. I'm sure ScubaBoard and lawyers would parse how I might have had more supervisory staff (one on one DM?) or otherwise could have prevented losing the student. I might rightfully be sued and lose due to a moment's inattention. No argument there. Sometimes even a trivial error on an instructor's part has bad outcomes. But this is willful, profoundly ignorant (assuming no ill intent), clearly (willfully?) standard-violating behavior. It's such massive negligence that I have to think you need a categorically different legal response.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

IMO, in the UK, that instructor would be facing a lengthy prison sentence as our Health and Safety Exectutive are extremely clear on this sort of thing. Once you pay for a service, you fall under a duty of care, and if standards are not met, the person providing that care is negligent.

My limited understanding (being neither an attorney or a resident of the UK) is that some things subject to punitive damages in a civil trial would result in a criminal trial in the UK. You don't have punitive damages in civil suits, do you? Where the monetary award isn't just what the victim lost but includes a punishing component based on how badly the defendant erred? (In this case, I'm expecting massive punitive damages. Young people with no kids, no business or serious, matured career won't get as many dollars in actual damages.)

 

[flymolo]

Not sure? Have you actually READ that thread? It’s full of dozens of posts on this topic, with scores of uploaded screenshots of PADI materials.

either you are trolling, or…. Well we can leave it at that…

No please go on I appreciate your valuable contributions to the thread