Unsafe Diving on the Caribbean Explorer II??

[Web Monkey]

Hide sight is 20/20, what doesn't kill ya learns ya lots of platitudes can fit but I agree with the OP the DM did not follow the dive plan and withheld information that may have caused the diver to make a different decision about doing the dive.

The only information needed for a new diver to call this dive was the depth. If she really didn't know that she didn't belong at 100' with a 63 Cu Ft tank on her #3 dive, her instructor owes her a refund.

Terry

 

[divedeeepr]

Hey everyone thanks again for all of this info about this situation. After reading all of your posts I believe there is fault all around by me and my wife as well as the DM. As many of you have stated, it is a cheap lesson well learned and will make us better divers for sure. There is no shame in sitting out a dive if it doesn't feel right to the individual. At a minimum my wife should have put on an 80 cubic ft tank for this dive. This deep dive was late in the week. My wife had made about 15 dives on this trip prior to this dive. Frankly I think we all forgot she was on a smaller tank.

 

[divedeeepr]

I agree that every diver is responsible for their own decisions about the where, when, how of their dives.

The way I see it newer divers are often unable to determine where the residual fear they may carry EVERY dive ends and the honest/ justified fear of a dive that is beyond them begins. This sometimes makes their choices difficult. For many new divers, every dive is a "trust me" dive for a while. It seems to me that the experience gained in diving builds confidence in diving skills and the ability to say "NO" to a dive.

We should never pressure a diver to dive when they shouldn't but people are often just as reluctant to encourage a diver not to do a dive. Let me throw in a question that may stir up a hornet's nest. When was the last time that you (not just the OP but every one reading this) saw a new and obviously nervous diver and actually talked to them about it being OK to sit the dive out? Maybe even pointed out the fact that you sat out dives yourself?

I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned here and I think they have already been well stated. I just wanted to put a little different slant on things.

I agree everyone made mistakes but the way I read it. The DM said she would take care of the new diver. The DM buddied with the new diver without sharing vital information (we will share air to extend the dive). That is irresponsible. Of course the diver should be able to share air but not because her buddy (DM) chose to put her into that position!

Hide sight is 20/20, what doesn't kill ya learns ya lots of platitudes can fit but I agree with the OP the DM did not follow the dive plan and withheld information that may have caused the diver to make a different decision about doing the dive. Everybody made mistakes I am just glad we aren't reading this in the accident forum.

BowlofPetunias....you hit the nail on the head! Thanks!

 

[darkstar]

Almost every diver I know can tell this same story with minor variation. Mine was dive #11 off the airport in Puerto Plata. It scared my wife so badly, that she never dove again.

And just like every other diver that survives that experience, I learned:
- you are responsible for yourself (in every way and for every decision)
- you are responsible for your buddy (Pick good ones. Stick with them and train together)
- you can call any dive at any time and for any reason
- don't follow a DM unless they are going where you want to go, or they are going into a bar.

 

[mjarens]

Maybe you weren't asking for advice, but as a recently new (3 yrs, 192 dives) diver, I recall a few dives that taught me a lesson or two. Although I was never timid or fearful during my training and subsequent dives, I sucked air fast for a while. Here is a suggestion:

Your wife would benefit greatly from yoga lessons. I am not into yoga, but took a class for a few months when I first started diving, not realizing the instruction would cross over into diving. The breathing exercises greatly improved my air consumption while diving. Instead of being the first diver to run low, I am now able to drop in first and ascend last on most dives, always returning with close to 1,000 lbs.

Also, yoga taught me to relax, shed the tension one might feel as a new diver. Gearing up, listening to dive briefings, checking nitrox and preparing your equipment, for each dive can seem hectic as a new diver - not the best state to dive in. Relaxation enhances the dive experience. It helps keep fatigue at bay.

Hope this suggestion helps.

 

[NudeDiver]

Here's what happen. My wife is newly certified and had only have 2 dives after she got PADI certified two years ago....Your thoughts please??

My thought is that your wife exceeded her training as a newly minted OW diver, who is certified to only go down to 60 feet. So, my question is, why did she go beyond this limit? Why did she not manage her own air source and head back to the line and surface on her own judgment, rather than trusting a complete stranger to do it for her?

While I think the DM here is an idiot, I think that if you're going to point fingers, you need to point them at your wife too. I'm also baffled as to, as an experienced diver, why you thought that making dives like this was a good idea for a new diver, with so little diving experience since being certified, and also being nervous about the whole thing.

 

[Gwen1011]

Hey Shasta Man, you said, "I would agree that planning on sharing air particularly with a new diver was a bad decision on the guides part. Actually stupid in my opinion but the guides can get complacent..."

I must respectfully disagree with that statement, as I highly doubt that was the DM's plan.

I just dove with the exact same crew a couple weeks ago, and my buddy was the newbie on the boat. Never was he (or any other diver) placed in an unsafe situation. Divedeepr (ironic screen name) what I was imagining when you said the DM took your wife's hand and took her off the line is that they were swimming toward the back of the boat. Could that have been where they were headed and turned back for some reason?

Gwen

 

[divedeeepr]

Hey Gwen101111....

the DM told us prior to the dive, that my wife, due to her little experience would dive with her during this entire dive, not me. SHe also did this on night dives as well. My wife did exactly as she was instructed and brief by the DM for this deep dive. Everything was fine until the end of the dive when the DM and my wife were heading abck to the line for what I thought was to be their collective ascent. Instead she tokk my wife's hand and lead her away from the morring line at depth. This caused my wife's low air supply and subsequnet air-sharing on the way up the line from 80 feet with the DM. The DM told us after the dive that they do this all the time. But never were we told in advance of any dive that air-sharing with any of the DM's would be a possibility to extend bottom time. Hope this helps!

 

[Web Monkey]

the DM told us prior to the dive, that my wife, due to her little experience would dive with her during this entire dive, not me. SHe also did this on night dives as well. My wife did exactly as she was instructed and brief by the DM for this deep dive.

This should have been a non-starter and everybody involved should have known it.

A brand new diver does not belong on a deep dive, a night dive or especially a deep night dive, regardless of what the DM said or did.

I'm assuming the DM knows this because if it's anything like the SSI DiveCon exam, the DM exam is loaded with standards and practices questions.

You should have known it because you're certified.

Your wife should have known it because she was just certified and there was almost certainly a "maximum depth" question either in a quiz or on the written exam.

The SCUBA Police is manned by an unblinking, never-tiring guy named Darwin, and he's just waiting to remove people from the gene pool. Three dives isn't even enough to reliably attach the tank to the BC, so deep dives from a liveaboard with a distracted "buddy" DM is just begging for trouble. You're lucky it turned out as good as it did.

Terry

 

[potato cod]

A brand new diver does not belong on a deep dive, a night dive or especially a deep night dive, regardless of what the DM said or did.

Hmm...this comment got me thinking. I thought I'd offer the perspective of a newer diver, FWIW. I did my first diving post certification + refresher on a live-aboard trip. My spouse/buddy was also a brand new diver and we dove with another novice couple and a DM who was a great instructor. We were the only group of new divers on the trip, and it became obvious that the operation had teamed us up with their best DM.

On our first day of diving (my first ever in the ocean--got certified in fresh water) we did a 2 dives and then a night dive. The night dive was at the same site as our second dive, so we had already dove the spot. Although we were all nervous, we had a great dive and I found it both exciting and peaceful. Seeing the changing ecology of the reef was so interesting and I'm glad I did it!

Did we not belong on that dive? I don't really know, but we were well briefed, did a fairly shallow dive (50' max and most of it around 30-35'), were in a very small group with the boat's most experienced DM, had redundant lights/glow sticks, etc. and everything went very smoothly. I'll admit I felt a little disoriented on ascent, but the mooring line and lights from the boat helped and everyone in our group raved about the dive afterward. I'll also freely admit that a little more experience would have been good in case anything did go wrong, but I'm also glad that I did the night dive right away because it demystified the night dive.

Was it a "trust me" dive. You bet. But being with a great DM also made it a very positive learning experience.

Since this time I've dove with both great and not-so-great DMs and have learned from many of them. Trust me dives are sometimes a fact of learning, and can work well if you have a good DM that is not in charge of a large group and has time to devote to you and to help you advance your skills. That said, my spouse and I have also learned that the DM doesn't always know best, and that, too, has been a valuable lesson. We've learned to learn from watching and talking to the DM, but we've also learned we must rely on each other, rather than the DM.

Best of luck to you and your wife in your future diving, Divedeepr!