Unsafe Diving on the Caribbean Explorer II??

[Arizona]

As others stated tank size was an issue. As your wife was a new diver with limited experience and a lot time off since being initially certified, why let her dive 100ft/30m without an AOW rating ? She should have at least been in a buddy team that included an instructor IMO if this was attempted on an AID deep dive with a proper pre-dive briefing (i.e knowledge review...). Was the DM also an instructor?

It seems you both learned something about being in charge of your dive plan, but do encourage your wife to take the AOW course. Did you both have computers?

Thanks for sharing,

 

[divedeeepr]

Thanks for all the great feedback on this situation. For the record, I (the husband) am rather experienced in diving for the past 20 years, certainly not a newbie. I have done multiple live aboards including Galapagos Aggressor twice. The majority of my diving is done off of the east coast of the US. I dive a viking drysuit with double steel 80's. The DM on this boat told us that she would be partnering with my wife for this dive because of the depth. Perhaps that was mistake one on my part and not stepping in. So my wife was not my buddy on this dive. I certainly do agree that each and everyone underwater, regardless of their experience, should ultimately be responsible for themselves. My only question of the DM's decision was not bringing my wife straight back to the line to begin her ascent. This, in my opinion created the low air situation and further amped the anxiety late in the dive. It appeared to us that the dive was changed from the pre-dive briefing.

 

[divedeeepr]

Yes both my wife and I have computers but not air integrated. She will be taking her nitrox course in February as well as the Advanced openwater course this summer. I agree this is a lesson well learned and will make us both safer in the long run. I was nervous for her on this trip and should have, as others have suggested, trusted my instincts and stepped in when necessary.

 

[Web Monkey]

I just came off the CEX II (Jan 24 to Jan 31). It was the Saba St. Kitts trip. We had a situation on one dive and I wanted to share this with you all and gets some feedback on what I believe is unsafe diving practices.

Here's what happen. My wife is newly certified and had only have 2 dives after she got PADI certified two years ago. This was going to be her first real immersion into lots of multi-day clear water diving. She was quite nervous about this trip. She was doing great all week and getting more and more confident and comfortable with each passing day. We were scheduled to do a deep pinnacle dive off Saba Island. The pinnacle top was approx. 100 feet with the bottom at 180 feet so she was bit

DMs routinely take people into unsafe conditions and dive beyond diver's limits, training and safety margins. The solution is to not do "trust me" dives.

Unfortunately for your wife, she was probably never taught how to determine if she is qualified for any particular dive, or when to "say no" to a DM. I make it a point to tell all my students that if they wouldn't be comfortable doing a dive with just a buddy, they shouldn't do it with the DM. The DM might be wonderful and safety concious or might be a thrill-seeking nut-job or just a burn-out. There's no way to tell before the dive.

However before dumping all the blame on the DM:

• You have a lot of dives and should have known better than to take your just-certified wife on a 100' dive.
• You should have stayed with your buddy (wife) and started your ascent at a turn pressure that was safe for both of you, regardless of what the DM was doing
• Your wife's OW instructor should have taught here when to "say no"

Terry

 

[cowdog77]

"Your wife as a beginning diver should not have been diving at that depth especially with a small tank.
_____________________
Yep. And....look at it as glass half full...it was a "cheap" lesson and you both will change your diving practices as a result, which will result in your becoming better divers.

 

[AXL72]

Sorry to hear the frustration and unconfortable situation you were put through. I am not saying I agree, but I acknowlege that there is alot of dissapointment, discomfort, and overall lack of satisfaction expressed in the tone of your post with the situation.

However, I would like to just comment on some things that differ in my oppinion than yours and to acknowlegs some items that I agree with:

1. It is true that there was a lack of communication and you may have been put in a situation of believing that your "wife was going to be taken care of one-on-one". Now you know for next time, albeit, you found out the hard way.

2. But with a big boat, leading a large group, "Dawn" has a valid point that she has to rely on your wife and her training.

3. I diagree that all individuals of a group comprised of a varied aray of experience needs to head up with the divemaster.

4. "Dawn" should not have made assurances (if she in fact misled you) that she would "take care of (babysit) your wife" while knowing darn well that she would keep her down with the rest of the group and not be able to focus on the appropriate, non-loligagged ascent for a low on air point of the dive.

5. 700 psig is not necessarily a totally bad thing at 85 feet. It varies with individuals (within reason and air management and consumption calculations, etc., etc.) . Now you and your wife know what your comfort level is and that, as is typical of new divers, your wife is now an air-hog (which will improve over time and experiance). Set a limit of 1,000 psig to start the ascent from 85 feet and a turn around psig of 2,000 psig...or whatever is appropriate for your comfoprt level.

6. Rack this one up to simply, "Is "Dawn" and her livaboard going to get your repeat business any time soon. I guess you rectified the sitaution already with the amount of your tip and whatever decision you have already made about giving repeat business. I doubt you will get a sorry, or financial amends in the form of a discount on your next trip. Just not going to happen. Get over it, and like you have already done, make sure you are asking questions from a learning perspective as opposed to a jab at the reputation of the business. However, it sounds as if you had received a "sorry, we will dio a better job", then you would have been a little more closer to being happier?

7. You have over 20 years of diving experience. Why the hell did you not brief your wife and buddy up with her and take care of her, as opposed to expecting "Dawn" to do it for you?

8. From a learning perspective, if that is the whole point of this post, it is classy to leave out the name of the business. Otherwise, the post reaks of trying to harm or discredit the business, and the "learning" point claimed loses all credibility to a whine or complaint post.

9. Nitrox and no-deco do not sound like they were a factor in this situation. This situation appears to be purely an air consumption situation.

Anyways, sorry about the miscommuncication. It sounds like you know better for next time.

 

[Thalassamania]

... My wife is newly certified and had only have 2 dives after she got PADI certified two years ago.

I don't think that your wife had any business on that trip. If you accurately described her experience to the operator prior to the trip and they said it was OK, then I think that they did wrong by you.

 

[mpgunner]

I like deep diving but: New diver, deep dive and small tank sure sounds like a problem waiting to happen. Glad it all worked out.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I agree that every diver is responsible for their own decisions about the where, when, how of their dives.

The way I see it newer divers are often unable to determine where the residual fear they may carry EVERY dive ends and the honest/ justified fear of a dive that is beyond them begins. This sometimes makes their choices difficult. For many new divers, every dive is a "trust me" dive for a while. It seems to me that the experience gained in diving builds confidence in diving skills and the ability to say "NO" to a dive.

We should never pressure a diver to dive when they shouldn't but people are often just as reluctant to encourage a diver not to do a dive. Let me throw in a question that may stir up a hornet's nest. When was the last time that you (not just the OP but every one reading this) saw a new and obviously nervous diver and actually talked to them about it being OK to sit the dive out? Maybe even pointed out the fact that you sat out dives yourself?

I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned here and I think they have already been well stated. I just wanted to put a little different slant on things.

I agree everyone made mistakes but the way I read it. The DM said she would take care of the new diver. The DM buddied with the new diver without sharing vital information (we will share air to extend the dive). That is irresponsible. Of course the diver should be able to share air but not because her buddy (DM) chose to put her into that position!

Hide sight is 20/20, what doesn't kill ya learns ya lots of platitudes can fit but I agree with the OP the DM did not follow the dive plan and withheld information that may have caused the diver to make a different decision about doing the dive. Everybody made mistakes I am just glad we aren't reading this in the accident forum.

 

[Zeeman]

...
Here's what happen. My wife is newly certified and had only have 2 dives after she got PADI certified two years ago. This was going to be her first real immersion into lots of multi-day clear water diving. She was quite nervous about this trip.

Just curious - maybe I missed it, but what is your diving experience? (Perhaps some more info in your bio would help)


Also, this seems like i may have been "your" dream trip, it sure sounds pretty awesome to me. But perhaps you pushed your wife into doing this when, really, she probably knew it was beyond her abilities?


Ninja edit - after further reading, I noticed you included your diving experience. 20 years worth of experience sounds like one heck of a buddy to me. Your wife should have stuck with you,, in my opinion, and, as someone else pointed out, you probably should not have gone 40 feet ahead of your buddy.

Anyway, glad all is well, and please use this as a learning experience.



Z...