Universal certification standards

[NudeDiver]

Looking over the posts here, there seems to be a rather diverse set of ideas as to what qualified and certified really means. There are a number of posts here to indicate just that.

That's for sure.

You stated that you want to dive with someone who is an equal to you, but the card they hold does not necessarily indicate their competence.

Um - no I didn't. If you are referring to the post that I think you are referring to - the question was, given the choice between someone with an OW cert and an RD cert, who would you choose to dive with. My response indicated that I would refer to dive with the more capable diver. That's not necessarily someone who is "equal" to me. I don't regard my own skills all that highly. I'd be happy to dive with someone who is much more capable than myself. I'd also dive with someone who is much less capable than myself - if they have a reasonable capability. I also don't think that capability is represented by any particular cert card, whether it be OW, RD, DM, Instructor, or God himself.

Having said that the next logical question is if a X certification does not mean as much as y certification, then what should this certification mean? What should this person know and be able to do with a given level of certification.

This task has already been determined by agency standards. Coming up with more standards, which are not implemented by any agency, seems to be a waste of time to me.

In short everyone has there own idea of what a basic OW cert should be, and what an AOW cert should be, so I think it would be very interesting to hear what it should be and why.

Ah - but that's not the question you posed with your suggestion that we develop the Esperanto-equivalent of diving standards.

Given this, the "Agency" rep's who are amongst us will notice what we want. I would think they would listen and maybe make some changes.

Ah, OK - I see where you are coming from now. But I think you mistaken if you think agencies will "listen to the customer" and change their standards based on our input. But knock yourself out

 

[Web Monkey]

That depends on who writes it. There are those who want the bar set as low as possible and others who believe quality is important.

It looks like the bar is now as low as it can go. My friend from college just called to tell me that he was in Australia last week and did a "Discover SCUBA", where the training consisted of "Don't forget to breathe" and "Follow me".

Now he has some sort of ear damage and what is hopefully a temporary hearing loss in one ear. Even though he lives in Florida on the east coast and could have become a happy, safe diver, he now has absolutely zero interest in ever diving again.

Terry

 

[rstofer]

In short if it's broke, then we should have an answer on how to fix it.
.

Who gets to decide if it's broke? Us? The government? The for-profit shop owners? The for-profit agencies? The non-profit agencies?

We, at SB, may agree the system is broken (or not) but absolutely nobody cares what we think. If we want a better system, we should start with our own skills.

In that regard, it is a lot like driver's licenses for operators of small boats (non-commercial). The problems with drivers of small boats are enormous but haven't risen to a level where the government is willing to step in over the protests of boat owners. Clearly the problems with diving don't even reach that level.

So, whatever problems there may be with undertrained divers, it hasn't risen to a level that causes any concern outside of SB. One of the big reasons it doesn't shock anyone is that, usually, an accident involving a diver only affects THAT diver. It's not like a drunken driver taking out an entire family on their way to church. We're willing to write it off to misadventure and move on. One dead body probably doesn't even make the newspaper. It just isn't shocking enough.

Most will agree that the Y program was pretty good. But it's dead! Attempts to revive it (YDI) may, or may not, succeed. My guess is they fail. I don't know where the LA County program stands. It was always highly regarded. Is it still alive? Notice that both of these programs are completely independent of equipment marketing.

If you want better training, remove training from dive shops. Car dealers don't provide driver training or licensing. It should be the same for diving. But it won't...

Try to become self-sufficient to the extent that you are not dependent on your buddy. The whole idea that a backup plan relies on a buddy is terrifying.

So, just go diving and be happy. There are more important things to worry about than the level of diver training.

Richard

 

[CMAS One]

You have received alot of interseting comments on this topic but the most direct one has been left out. There was at one time an almost universal set of standards that existed in the world developed at the direction of Captain Cousteau. He determined in the mid 50's that standardized training was going to be necessary to keep divers safe. As a result of this thought process CMAS (The World Underwater Federation) was formed by fifteen member countries (now over one hundred strong) and they set up a standardized system of training still taught today. They flourished outside the US and are still taught today and only recently have been reintroduced into the US.

Initially, all US based agencies had almost the identical standards including PADI. Over the years however the publics change of attitude toward wanting things faster and easier caused most of the US agencies to water down the courses and the divergence of standards begain. Since we still live in an open market economy (as of this writing) individual organizations are allowed to express individuality and are free to operate as they please. The free market thoery has a saying "Let the buyer beware" which is great for the producers but not to great for the consumers. Since the consumer of dive training is generally as ignorant as the new computer buyer and they are bombarded with big names and opinions they have a tough decision.

Considering diving involves use of life support equipment for exploring a completely hostile environment, since we do not breath water, you would think choosing a complete and comprehensive course would be a no brainer. However, there are very few sources out there to give non biased information on how to pick the course. There used to be a book available called Scuba Diving - How to Get Started that did exactly that but unfortunately it is out of print.

Finally all I can say is the astronauts do not take a three day training course then get launched into space. They receive complete training so they can handle most any issue that may present itself in space. You can not train for every individual problem that can occur but the greater the level you train to the more you develop the ability to deal with and solve problems. That in the long run is the difference between being able to enjoy the sport safely and becoming a story and statistic in a DAN report.

To quote Paul Harvey "and now you have the - rest of the story".

Cheers,
Frank