Undeserved hit to inner ear

[ScubaTwo]

They had to walk back up the steps to the car.. what else should they do? That, my friend, is sometime quite strenuous.

No mention of alcohol in his post.

The guy posted for our benefit, so we could learn from it, and not to be scrutinized by you or others!

Please don't be so rude and harsh with your comments.

I wasnt being rude or harsh I was asking a question. See the part were I said "being a newbie Im not sure"?

 

[DrSteve]

This is an invalueble thread because it's educational... the bends just happen. We get to learn first hand about why hydration, proper food, and exercise prior to a dive is as important as the dive itself. I'm going for a PFO test as well and would encourage anyone who dives A LOT to do so, even if you're not doing deco. (IMHO all deco divers especially should get tested...)

I did a ssearch for "PFO" and got nothing. What is it? Please don't say pretty ********** obvious!

 

[diver_paula]

I'm going for a PFO test as well and would encourage anyone who dives A LOT to do so, even if you're not doing deco. (IMHO all deco divers especially should get tested...)

I did a ssearch for "PFO" and got nothing. What is it? Please don't say pretty
********** obvious!

Patent Foramen Ovale

Here's a link to an article on DAN's website titled "PFO - Is it important to Divers? What is it?"

www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=70

Also, a friend of mine that had been a diver eventually had to 'retire' from diving. He dove for years with no side effects, not knowing he had a PFO, but in his late 60's unexpectedly had trouble a couple times which resulted in 911 being called and the PFO being discovered.

Paula

p.s. No question is silly if you don't know the answer.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The sudden onset of vertigo and nausea sounds to me like alternobaric vertigo is at least as likely a candidate as DCI. Consider the possibility of a moderate sub-pain level reverse block in one ear suddenly letting go. This could cause the symptoms described, and given the profile seems to me more likely than a DCI hit.
(The duration may tilt the odds towards DCI, but I'm no ENT - or any other kind of doc - so can't say)
Rick

 

[DrSteve]

p.s. No question is silly if you don't know the answer.

Thank you Paula. I have heard some pretty stupid questions before...but now that I think about it, they were all something the person should have known or could have worked out. I therefor conclude I work with a bunch of idiots!

 

[Henryville]

I second (or maybe it's third) encouraging your buddy to be tested fo a PFO. Check out this thread and the symptoms/precipitating activities.

http://www.thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184&highlight=fizzydoc

These apparently exist in a quarter or maybe more of the general population. Doing deco dives with strenuous activity afterward creates the right conditions for bubbles crossing a PFO. Your buddy might have been lucky to get away with what he experienced. Encourage him to check it out.

 

[vjongene]

The sudden onset of vertigo and nausea sounds to me like alternobaric vertigo is at least as likely a candidate as DCI. Consider the possibility of a moderate sub-pain level reverse block in one ear suddenly letting go. This could cause the symptoms described, and given the profile seems to me more likely than a DCI hit.
(The duration may tilt the odds towards DCI, but I'm no ENT - or any other kind of doc - so can't say)
Rick

The symptoms appeared about 1 h after the end of the dive. My impression was that alternobaric vertigo would always develop during a dive, as a result of a block or reverse block in one ear. But I guess that given the fact that no other symptoms of DCI were seen, and the doctors were unable to locate a bubble, this is not a totally far-fetched possibility. Thanks for the suggestion, Rick.

 

[DEEPLOU]

Couple of things to remember:

its Decompression THEORY. Theory meaning it is not exact science. Although somewhat predictable, sometimes even if you do everything right acording to the theory, the fickle finger of fate is going to f you anyway.

That being a given, I always worry if the FFF is going to get me some day.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The symptoms appeared about 1 h after the end of the dive. My impression was that alternobaric vertigo would always develop during a dive, as a result of a block or reverse block in one ear. But I guess that given the fact that no other symptoms of DCI were seen, and the doctors were unable to locate a bubble, this is not a totally far-fetched possibility. Thanks for the suggestion, Rick.

Alternobaric vertigo can happen whenever there is a relatively rapid change in middle ear pressure in one ear and not the other. This can be a one-ear block going down, or coming up, or... it can occur after there has been a slow enough change in pressure in one ear and not the other that vertigo isn't triggered by the slow rise of pressure difference. This is what I think likely here; a reverse block in one ear that, due to the slow ascent the diver made, did not reach the vertigo threshhold - the brain compensated for the pressure difference as it slowly built up. When such a reverse block suddenly clears later, the sudden return to normal pressure can induce the alternobaric vertigo symptoms even though the ear is actually returning to normal (ambient) pressure. It is the brain's inability to compensate for the rapid change in pressure in one ear and not the other that does it, rather than an actual difference in middle ear pressure. That is, you can get the symptoms as a block occurs or, if the brain has already compensated for the difference in middle ear pressures, as a block clears.
Still, the symptoms are usually pretty short-lived, so DCI in this case can't be ruled out - and I think the prudent course (chamber) was the right one.
Rick

 

[DiveGolfSki]

That makes it a bad dive site.

Dr. Deco has mentioned several times that strenous activity significantly increases the chances of DCS.

Terry

I don't think there are any "bad dive site" per se. If we label dive sites as such, then some very interesting locations will never be explored. Case in point, I hear that "Hal Watts' Forty Fathom Grotto" in Ocala, FL is such a place. You have to go down at least 40 steps (here's an interesting article in ScubaDiving that covers it: http://www.scubadiving.com/travel/eastern_usa/great_spring_diving/3/) but the grotto has become a premier instructional facility. I've never been there but I'm certain there are more areas like it around the world.

Maybe a dive site can be labelled by degree of difficulty (how 'bout using skier's labels ... double black diamonds - green).

Dr. Deco is right about strenous exercise after a dive. It seems that Vjongene's friends had followed the proper protocols (30-60 minute rest after dive). Their 80 step climb may have exacerbated the condition but may not have been the determining factor.

Maybe the dive plan can be modified ... how about getting help to carry the gear? If golf can have caddies, why not "Dive Caddies". How about "maid service"?

Seriously, all factors of a dive (e.g., getting to a dive, the dive profile, any deco requirements, getting from a dive, etc.) have to be part of the initial plan. I'm sure Vjongene's friends will modify some part of it if they continue visiting the dive. They seem experienced enough.