Underwater panic.

[ERP]

Went out diving with UP again today, second dive with the long primary, and bungied backup.

Not as eventful as the first dive, although we did get some hail before the dive started and some nice lightning during the dive

I felt a lot more comfortable with the set up from the start of the dive, but our dive plan was to practive swapping to the necklace and to do some OOA practice.

We did a few OOA drills, enough for me to realise that I needed to work on my buoyancy during the initial reg swap, I'd guess I was drifting 5 or 6ft vertically during the drills.

The last of the OOA drills we did with a controlled ascent to the surface, me using UP's primary. Had I not already been sold on the long primary, this drill alone would have done it. The difference between this drill and my experience ascending on a standard octo was dramatic and all for the better.

 

[Wreck/Tec]

ERP
I'm glad you found some of the benifits of the long hose. I personally feel it's the way to go in all setups, I find the kids are easier manageing tanks in the pool with a longer hose. They usually tuck the tank under their arm and go. Good luck!
Wreck/Tec

 

[MikeFerrara]

Anyone can panic. What it takes to panic you may not even be the same day to day or dive to dive. I have seen a number of divers panic and in every case there was never an unsolvable problem. The diver perceived the problem as unsolvable or decided they didn't want to solve it but rather just go home instead.

Even when there is no "panic" there is often a moment when all options are not seen (perceptual narrowing). This I have witnessed personally. These are all reasons we practice. It is also why emergency procedures need to be as simple as possible.

Back when my wife was taking her IANTD tech diver course we were at a local quarry just doing drills. We were at about 20 ft doing valve shutdowns. I decided to go ahead and do it at the same time as she did (mistake). Anyway she switched back to her primary without turning it on first and continued to shut down her backup. I had my primary off and was breathing my backup. Being OOA she reached over and purged my primary (I didn't know why she was doing it). One she realized it was off she signaled OOA. I started to give her my backup from my mouth and realized it wasn't going over my head easily without taking off my mask. My wifes eyes told me she was really unhappy and wanted air. I lifted the reg over my head without regard for my mask which I promptly lost. I gave her the alternate and switched back to my primary (which was off). I then simply reached back and turned it on. My wife handed my mask to me. I replaced the mask and we turned everything back on.

The interesting thing is that we had options we never considered. We were both wearing deco bottles which could have been breathed at that depth and of course she should have been able to simply turn her primary back on. She decided that I was the best way out. My chosen course of action was ok but losing a mask is less than desireable especially during an OOA.

Given the nature of some of our dives I often wonder what it would take to make me panic. How certain of my impending death would I need to be before I snapped? It sounds morbid but there have been times when ones ability to keep trying even when it seemed that failure was garanteed made the difference. I think the more tools in your bag and the more confidence you have the more it will take to convince you that you are out of options.

It is said that "believe you can; believe you can't either way your right"

 

[TCDiver1]

ERP once bubbled...


On the surface it was easy to work out the cause of the problem, being unfamiliar with the long hose routing I'd wrapped it around the wrong side of my neck and as a result the regulator was inverted in my mouth. :bonk:

There is no up or down or wrong way to put it in your mouth. One less thing to be concerned about in a OOA situation.

On the breath holding thing, i'm in full agreement with NetDoc. Scuba diving, if done properly, yields no good reason to hold your breath and lots of bad reasons.

You should have an alternate air source if your primary pukes. If your alternate pukes or your OOA, your buddy should be there to donate their alternate. If your diving solo, you should have a redundent air source to make a normal ascent, etc, etc.

The potential permanent damage caused by air expansion injuries in a breath hold ascent are numerous and not to be taken lightly. I'm with NetDoc in recommending you train your brain bucket to never hold your breath while scuba diving. I also do my best to drive this home with my students.

 

[Dectek]

I beleive it was one of our founding fathers that said:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

Ben Franklin


Then again, he is the one who stated " I am not a failure. I just found 10,000 ways that don't work."

 

[SwimJim]

It seems like its been a million years since I originally got certified. In truth it only been twenty five. While not holding your breath is certainly important, and it should be automatic, your first reaction to a problem is stop, think, react. If you lose your concentration you lose all, period.
A diver should not enter the open water with a rig that is unfamiliar to him or her as the case may be. Thats an invitation to disaster. New gear should be checked out in a pool or a very shallow dive. Never in open water.
I certainly don't mean to come off as harsh and I'm glad you brought this up. Please do remember to think things through. And dive safe.

Jim

 

[DiverBuoy]

ERP once bubbled...
UP adjusted the backplate and I got into the gear, we went over some air sharing drills on the surface and went on the dive with the intent of practising them.

...I paniced, and did an ESA from 40ft . On the surface it was easy to work out the cause of the problem, being unfamiliar with the long hose routing I'd wrapped it around the wrong side of my neck and as a result the regulator was inverted in my mouth.

UP must share some of the blame to a degree here. If he helped setup the equipment and did the buddy check with you ... I don't want to make huge waves here but I find myself compelled to express some concern. Though I clearly wasn't there to see all the details. Forgetting the fact that UP wasn't playing instructor he was being the role model for a new dive configuration even helping procure the equipment and setting it up. Therefore, UP doesn't get off so easy here he must share some of the blame for the failure. I'm really glad you were completely overt with the details of your story and I'm especially glad there was a happy ending.

UP wrote:

He had a buddy (who saw that he was putting the regulator in upside down and attempted to turn it over for him) but instead of using any of those resources... when he panicked... he bolted for the surface.

By way of training I'll share some specific instructor training - When PADI instructors are working with students on mask drills and other circumstances where a student is most likely to spit out their regulator we bring our alternate air source around and holding it with proper orientation in our hands we bring it to a ready position a 1/2 a foot to a foot away from the students mouth. The majority of the time there is no problem, but in the case where a student spits out their regulator you simply insert the alternate - prepared to assist with a purge.

The cirumstances of this dive were clearly different, but if the buddy observed "that he was putting the regulator in upside down". At this point the proper response for DIR would have been to give him your primary hose (or in PADI terms your alternate) THEN AND ONLY THEN correct the problem of the mislooped upside-down regulator.

The story indicates that ERP struggled trying to purge the unfamiliar regulator THEN panicked and did an emergency swimming ascent. UP I'm not saying you could have actually done anything to prevent the final moment of panic at least not once it had developed this far. ERP clearly had issues with what would cause him to panic and with unfamiliar equipment configuration and usage. He learned the hard way during this dive - I'm just glad he was unharmed so he could reflect on what he learned.

One more thing a good rule to follow - never dive new equipment in Open Water - practice the use of new equipment and configurations in a confined water setting.

Anyway a little soapbox blabber, but I can't imagine myself being the buddy who failed on these couple of things in the scenario given. IMO the standard buddy check list and trained dive behaviors including observance of my buddy and proper response training wouldn't allow for the scenario to have developed this far. But in the end this dive showed ERP what he still had to learn - glad he was around for the lesson to sink in. Sorry UP but some of this failure was on your shoulders.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have had students panic. Most often it has been in the shallow end of the pool the first night of class and they just stand up. That is of course why some skills are introduced there. However, I have had a couple panic in deeper water. It has always been while the student was performing a simple skill that they had performed many times without problem.

The instructor must be prepared to "see"and respond to a problem. Most often the situation is corrected and panic is avoided. Student try to put regs in upside down all the time (it's good to iron this out in the pool). If the problem can't be solved the situation must be controled. I don't prevent them from surfacing but I force them to ascend at a reasonable speed. These things hapen fast and it is never the students you expect it from. The reason is, if you expect it from a student you avoid the situation by further shallow practice.

I had a rescue student panic while practicing air sharing. She put the reg in her mouth upsidedown and upon failing to clear the reg she paniced. The DM she was working with never seen it coming at least not soon enough to prevent it. I only had a couple of feet to travel and got there in time to get hold of her. I gave her my alternate she spit it out. I gave it back and purged it for her and she still wouldn't take it. She clawed and scratched her way to the surface. I was able to controle her speed but there was no force on earth that could get her to take a reg. This took place at a depth of about 15 feet.

I had another student panic while replacing a mask over a 20 ft platform. The rest of the story was about the same except this one not only rejected her reg she also knocked my reg out of my mouth. I had her in one hand and a line in the other. She was strong. If not for the line I would have had a hrd time slowing her. The line gave me control but I didn't have a hand free to get my own reg back. The lose regs free flowed so we did the last part of the ascent in a cloud of bubbles.

The point is that it is up to the instructor to step in and keep some measure of control. I have seen several instructors have students get away from them so I won't say this hapened because UP isn't an instructor which is I think what DiverBuoy was hinting at. However, when one is in the role of instructor they need to be in control. This is true for all levels of training.

Now what about two certified divers (maybe of equal level) just out practicing skills. If new equipment or techniques are being used a pool or very shallow water may be in order. All you can do is try to advance in little steps. Most skills can be practiced as well at 15 ft as 50 ft. Of course all that does is give you a shorter fight on the way to the surface.

For those who have not seen a diver panic they turn totally animal. There is no humanity at all in a paniced diver. There is no thought at all in their head. They are completely in the flight/fight mode and there is no reasoning with them. They won't take signals and they have given up all hope of solving the problem and have decided to just go home. They will fight you as you try to help them and they are strong.

BTW, The injuries I have witnessed were the result of poor skills leading to panic. The actual injury is usually self inflicted by the diver in panic.

 

[TCDiver1]

Right on the money Mike, i've had several similar experiences.

Proper positioning and control are absolutely essential in dealing with in water emergencies. A large portion of the instructor training i went through was practicing proper positioning to aid in dealing with problems underwater. Many of the problems can be resolved before they become problems through proper positioning.

Buddy teams can learn something from this for all their diving. We all need to be positioned in such a way as to provide the maximum possible support to our buddy.

 

[DiverBuoy]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
The point is that it is up to the instructor to step in and keep some measure of control. I have seen several instructors have students get away from them so I won't say this hapened because UP isn't an instructor which is I think what DiverBuoy was hinting at.

Not quite. UP is a very experienced diver. What I'm saying is I'm not in UP's fins nor did I make that dive. I don't know more than the details of the story that were revealed here. What I do know is several things which absolutely should have been done were not done or not done right - all of which were preemptive to the actual event. I know that the training I have would have flagged all 3 of the things I mentioned BEFORE it got to the ESA. Could any of these have prevented the final ESA made by ERP? I can't say, but since these were not done (per the information provided) then I can say that all that could be done was in fact NOT done.

The single most important of which is DON'T USE NEW GEAR FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AN OPEN WATER FORMAT. Be familiar with equipment operation before you will need it to save your life.