Undersuit: Thinsulate Or Weezle

[Antonio Boga]

I'm almost to buy a trilaminate ATR Light Bare drysuit. I've been using for years a neoprene drysuit, but I've never been really happy with it. Now it's time to change to trilaminate (I didn't do it before because water in the spanish mediterranean it's not so cold year round, and I don't dive too much in winter season, when can drop to 12ºC. I felt OK with a semidry suit).

My question is about undergarments. When using the neoprene drysuit, I used a shirt and pants, and nothing else. The neoprene didn't work very well: I felt wet most of times, but not really cold. Now, I know that with a trilaminate suit, I need to choose well the undersuit, because this is the only thing that wil keep me away from cold (the Bare will keep me away from being wet).

Other divers who I know that usually dive with drysuit have recommended me Weezzle or Thinsulate in front of polar undergarment. I'm concerned about the thickness. I know the best deal is layering, depending how cold is the water. But know I will only purchase a piece of undergarment. Maybe later, when I'm confident with the dry suit (and save money) I'd buy something else; but now I want an undersuit that works all year round. I will not ice dive (I've done only three times), and the water in Spain goes from the 12ºC in winter to 25ºC in summer, but you can find 14ºC thermoclines all year round.

I tend to be cold underwater, so I don't care about being hot underwater, but I'm concerned about being too hot on the boat, while travelling to the dive spot (here in Spain we can have really hot temperatures). Apart from that, I'm also trying to uses an undersuit that is not very thick; that would restrain my movements maybe too much.

What do you think are the best deals for an undersuit?
Thinsulate 200 or 100?
or
Weezle Extreme? (I think Extreme+ would be too thick)

Any suggestion wil be appreciated.

I would also like to see your opinions about the Bare ATR light in front of other trrilaminate drysuits, and the convenience of buying special undergarment socks (like the Weezle ones) or just thick socks to keep my feet warm.

 

[AtomicWalrus]

What kind of undergarments you get depends on how cold you get. I wear the Bare CT-200 here in Canada, with water temperature ranging from 6°C in winter to maybe 12°C in summer, and I usually layer with additional Polar Fleece during the winter. The T-100 is also fairly popular, and maybe a better choice with the warmer water temperatures you describe. I've never tried a Weezle, but I understand that they're like the Rolls-Royce of drysuit undergarments (and they're priced that way in Canada, too!)

As far as socks go, I usually put on a pair of Polar Fleece socks and that provides adequate thermal protection when combined with the neoprene feet of my drysuit. Remember that a lot of the insulation in your drysuit comes from the dead air space trapped in the suit, so don't put on so many pairs of socks that your feet are squeezed in your boots. You won't be able to get any air in your feet, and will lose insulation.

 

[MSilvia]

I recently started diving with a Bare ATR HD, and I use the Weezle Extreme. I've been very happy with the thermal properties of the undergarment, as they've kept me comfortably warm even when my suit flooded with cold (7°C) water.

My one hesitation in recommending it is this:

The Weezle undergarments have a thicker piece of fabric protecting it from the zippers on back-entry drysuits, but the Bare ATR suits are front zip. The outer fabric the Weezles are made from is VERY lightweight, and even if you're careful (which I definately try to be) it's easy to get it caught in the zipper. This fortunately hasn't caused any permanent damage to my zipper yet, but front of my Weezle has gotten badly chewed up and torn after being used only a couple dozen times. I've had to bring repair tape as part of my save-a-dive kit, and am planning to reinforce the front of the suit to protect it in the future.

 

[bcsean]

thinsulate. Why do you want to add a ton of air to your drysuit if not necessary? It just adds to dynamic instability. Thinsulate even when under compression is warm it needs very little loft to keep doing it's job. Fleece on the other hand needs lots of loft to be a good insulator.

Next question, why do you want to layer? again, more loft required. Get an undergarment that will keep you warm. a heavier weight thinsulate doesn't get much thicker and offers as much insulation as required. I'm also a BC diver and plan to buy the diving concepts 400 undergarment. My suggestion would be the 200 weight stretch from diving concepts. Custom fit, stretch for ultimate mobility.

 

[Curt Bowen]

I have used the Weezle extreme in water temps from 38 to 74 degrees. You could not pry my weezle from my hands with a stick of TNT.

 

[AtomicWalrus]

thinsulate. Why do you want to add a ton of air to your drysuit if not necessary? It just adds to dynamic instability. Thinsulate even when under compression is warm it needs very little loft to keep doing it's job. Fleece on the other hand needs lots of loft to be a good insulator.

Next question, why do you want to layer? again, more loft required. Get an undergarment that will keep you warm. a heavier weight thinsulate doesn't get much thicker and offers as much insulation as required. I'm also a BC diver and plan to buy the diving concepts 400 undergarment. My suggestion would be the 200 weight stretch from diving concepts. Custom fit, stretch for ultimate mobility.

I've never had a problem with the amount of air that I add to my drysuit with more undergarments. If anything, it just means that I rely more on my drysuit for buoyancy control than my BCD.

The rationale for layering is that I need to adjust my insulation to accomodate the kind of diving I'm doing. I find that the CT-200 undergarment is perfectly adequate for run-of-the-mill 45 minute shore dives around Vancouver. However, if I'm doing multiple days of diving on a trip, I like having more insulation. Easiest way to do that without overheating the rest of the time is to layer. Also, additional insulation is usually a good idea when assisting with instruction. You don't end up swimming much because of all the skills, and with larger classes you end up spending A LOT of time hanging around waiting for everybody to finish demonstrating BCD removal/replacement on the surface, etc. OW dive #3 in particular is pretty nasty...

 

[String]

I use my weezle extreme in water from about 4c to 18c, its nice and warm (especially with their booties), even a flooded suit and it keeps you comfortable. Its almost sleeping bag like material thats fluffy and doesnt restrict movement at all.

If i had to buy all my dive gear again with a choice of any brand, id pick another Weezle for undersuit.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I own a Weezle Extreme+.

My recommendation based on your water and weather temps is a Thinsulate 200.

In water temps from mid 30s to mid 50s (degrees Fahrenheit) I'm comfortable. In warm ocean temps 60s and 70s I'm getting a bit warm. It is especially hot on the surface in warm weather, and I've found that for warmer weather a thinsulate or a fleece works better.

Moreover, I've found that I have trouble with flexibility unless I put more gas in the suit (DUI 450). Thinsulate seems to offer greater flexibility with less gas in the suit.

My experience only. FWIW. YMMV.

 

[Antonio Boga]

As I see in your replies, it looks that there is not a perfect undersuit. You can find answers like: "You could not pry my weezle from my hands with a stick of TNT" close to others like "thinsulate. Why do you want to add a ton of air to your drysuit if not necessary?".

I still have to go to my LDS (the only one that has Weezle in Barcelona, because technical divers are the only ones who use dry suits here) to test it. It costs 180€ (not $). I won't be able to test the Bare CT200, because the spanish dealer only sells in internet, and it's difficult to send it back if there are size problems. It's much more expensive (290€) than the Weezle.

Reading your answers, and asking other people, I'm thinking about buying the Bare CT200. As I said before, I haven't seen the Weezle yet, buy it looks really like a sleeping bag with sleeves and legs. The compressed Thinsulate from the Bare CT200 looks much more streamlined.
I send you a link from english Diver magazine, where there is a comparision between a Weezle and compressed Thinsulate 200 (not a Bare)

http://www.divernet.com/equipment/0204extra.shtml

By the way, if I finally decide to buy the Bare, I think I'll buy it at Leisure Pro. Even paying the (expensive) shipping to Barcelona, it's cheaper than buying it in Spain (without shipping is half the prize I can find in any shop in Europe).

¿Any other suggestion about shops?.

Another question about layering. I think the most important thing to keep you warm inside the dry suit is to mantain direct contact between your skin and the thinsulate (or weezle fabrics, that I can' remember now the name), to keep it dry. What happens if you put (for example, as it wais said here before) an additional polar fleece? This is neither Thinsulate nor weezle fabrics.

Thank you for your answers.

 

[String]

Just make sure what ever you layer has wicking properties, most outdoor fleece equipment and such do.

The goal is to remove water from your body to further away.

Ive used non wicking things under my weezle before now and not had a problem, with air temp around 3c i wasnt sweating at all so didnt need any water moved. but if layering its generally a good idea to use appropriate materials.