Understating Qualification on Charter Boats

[clownfishsydney]

I am pretty sure that every form I have ever seen for diving on a boat just asks "certification" rather than "highest certification". I only ever put what is needed to do the dive. For example, if I need to get nitrox, I put my nitrox certification. I cannot see that a DM or instructor putting a lower level is a problem or would ever be raised by anyone adversely.

 

[Edward3c]

Because of where AI am and what I do, I carry an in-water liability policy. It's the expensive part of my insurance suite of policies at $25k per year. My entire policy including 2 facilities, one in Key West and one in Lakewood, CO is $35k, so it is by far the most expensive part. The insurance company requires that I see a cert card for the level of dive I am offering. If it's a 130' single tank numpty dive, I can see an OW card. If a trip where a deco gas is allowed/proper, than an Advanced Nitrox card. And if trimix, than the appropriate trimix card, rebreather card, etc.


Folks who get hurt while diving from my boat tend not to stand in the witness box, they tend to send their surviving heirs instead. As long as I meet the requirements of the insurance company (properly filled out waiver and verification of certification card), they will spend up to a million bucks defending me. So, yes, I don't care if they stand in the witness bos and say "Captain Wookie said I was properly certified to conduct the dive". As we all know, capability doesn't really enter into it.

Waivers are often used against the company/operator that requested them in the UK, there worthless bits of paper.


It isn't the skipper who selects the dive site, but the trip organiser. The skipper's liability is to provide a safe passage to/from the dive site. They have no liability to be trained in diver first aid or for providing equipment that would be useful for a diving casualty. That doesn't mean most don't have the training or equipment, but their not required under UK law to do so.

 

[Bob DBF]

I am pretty sure that every form I have ever seen for diving on a boat just asks "certification" rather than "highest certification". I only ever put what is needed to do the dive. For example, if I need to get nitrox, I put my nitrox certification. I cannot see that a DM or instructor putting a lower level is a problem or would ever be raised by anyone adversely.

The boats I've been on only ask for "certification" on the waiver, however the ones that provide nitrox want to see the card before I get any.



Bob
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The day I can't dive anymore, I will really need some other good reasons to stay alive. DarkAbyss

 

[Nemrod]

Your profile doesn't say where you're located. A lot of boats here in California don't check certification at all. For liability reasons: if we check then we're responsible for sanctioning that the person is qualified to do the dive. The thinking is that the sites are posted on the website and you decided you could do that dive so you paid your money and came along.

In general - and speaking from experience, not speaking for any boat that I've worked or dove from - I've seen folks here ask for proof of certification to buy nitrox or to register for a technical dive, but even then I'd say it's the exception and not the rule. Nitrox kind of makes sense because we're giving you the gas. If you brought your own nitrox, I probably wouldn't need to see your card.

California boats are maybe a little different in that they're taxi services. We pick you up at a dock and then drop you off in the middle of the ocean. Our crew and DM stay on board the boat. You dive your plan and you come back. If you get into trouble it's really on you and your buddy to sort out. Like I said, we handle the aftermath. So in a lot of ways, yeah: your training is your problem.

I am curious how in California, USA the boats can act as a taxi service and not even check a certification card and yet in Florida, USA it is like the Gestapo are in charge and the prospective diver is interrogated without mercy? The Florida boats claim it is their insurance requirements, is it? really?

Cozumel and several similar places there is almost always a DM leading the group though most let you do your dive and I get it because it is a means of providing gainful employment to the locals often in places where good jobs are hard to come by perhaps. Nobody interrogates divers like Florida shops/boats and especially in the Keys. I had several very bad experiences with Keys operators my let trip, still a great trip but there are places with better diving, less hassle and even less money for more diving. They Keys are becoming a non-choice for me. I have told several shops in the Keys they are like SCUBA nazis, whayt do you mean they ask and I tell them straight up, the interrogation is going over the top. But I could start a whole thread on Keys shops, most are baby diver shops, you either need to have access to a boat or know somebody with a boat, good diving in the Keys is difficult with the majority of shops there.

I do not generally provide my highest cert, only the one required for the dive.

N

 

[Wookie]

I am curious how in California, USA the boats can act as a taxi service and not even check a certification card and yet in Florida, USA it is like the Gestapo are in charge and the prospective diver is interrogated without mercy? The Florida boats claim it is their insurance requirements, is it? really?

Cozumel and several similar places there is almost always a DM leading the group though most let you do your dive and I get it because it is a means of providing gainful employment to the locals often in places where good jobs are hard to come by perhaps. Nobody interrogates divers like Florida shops/boats and especially in the Keys. I had several very bad experiences with Keys operators my let trip, still a great trip but there are places with better diving, less hassle and even less money for more diving. They Keys are becoming a non-choice for me. I have told several shops in the Keys they are like SCUBA nazis, whayt do you mean they ask and I tell them straight up, the interrogation is going over the top. But I could start a whole thread on Keys shops, most are baby diver shops, you either need to have access to a boat or know somebody with a boat, good diving in the Keys is difficult with the majority of shops there.

I do not generally provide my highest cert, only the one required for the dive.

N

I think you are absolutely right. I don't know about insurance requirements, but we have the worst divers int he world show up here. I rarely go on day boats, as that just isn't my kind of diving, but when friends come to town, and my little boat isn't big enough, we go out with charter boats.

I enjoy a higher level of diver than most shops, after all, who will come on a liveaboard if they aren't a keen diver? The guys on the Key West day boats, however, and the worst of caribbean divers. They aren't her to dive, they are here to party, and if they get a dive in, all the better. If they miss the boat because they are hung over, well, they can start drinking in the morning.

The keys has some awesome diving, but I wouldn't consider it a place for serious divers, with a few exceptions. It is one of the few places where you can see a WW1 cruiser with 14" guns 20 miles from the dock, dive a WW I US submarine, or a WWII U-boat that is mostly intact, or any number of destroyers and frigates. If you are a serious diver. It's mostly for partiers and drinkers and families. The kind of folks you have to check c-cards and qualifications.

 

[mathauck0814]

I am curious how in California, USA the boats can act as a taxi service and not even check a certification card and yet in Florida, USA it is like the Gestapo are in charge and the prospective diver is interrogated without mercy? The Florida boats claim it is their insurance requirements, is it? really?

I'm curious as well and I intend to find out. I've been traveling in Australia since this thread started, but when I get home I intend to ask the boats who I know don't check certification a) who they're using for insurance and b) what their rationale is. I am almost certain that they are using Willis, as is Frank - which means that one of them has a misunderstanding (or there's some state by state nuance to what's being applied).

 

[Wookie]

I'm curious as well and I intend to find out. I've been traveling in Australia since this thread started, but when I get home I intend to ask the boats who I know don't check certification a) who they're using for insurance and b) what their rationale is. I am almost certain that they are using Willis, as is Frank - which means that one of them has a misunderstanding (or there's some state by state nuance to what's being applied).

Here is the page of my policy. Remember, this is the underwater liability part of the policy. First question is to ask your boat owner if he has underwater liability, or if he depends on his divemaster to cover it for him.

My Approved release in paragraph 2 asks for a cert card. Not for highest certification attained. It also asks for number of dives in past 12 months, and number of dives lifetime. We don't do anything with that information.

 

[mathauck0814]

Remember, this is the underwater liability part of the policy. First question is to ask your boat owner if he has underwater liability, or if he depends on his divemaster to cover it for him.

I'll ask, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me given that divemasters don't go underwater here unless specifically hired (private contractor) to do so.

 

[Wookie]

I'll ask, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me given that divemasters don't go underwater here unless specifically hired (private contractor) to do so.

That's usually an OUPV thing. Operators think that having an insured DM on the boat will cover their liability.

 

[flots am]

Here is the page of my policy. Remember, this is the underwater liability part of the policy. First question is to ask your boat owner if he has underwater liability, or if he depends on his divemaster to cover it for him.

Unless the boat sank and injured someone on he way down, how could anybody claim you're liable for anything that happens underwater?