Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[Meng_Tze]

We are all going to die.....

:yourkiddingme:

Well, then I guess it is moot to discuss this any further. If I am going to die (which apparently I am) then it makes no difference really, does it?

Die knowing you did what you wanted to do, have no remorse and make your peace with foes. Die peacefully and with grace.

 

[vladimir]

I think the body-builder with the high BMI is a red herring. No doubt he exists, but for the population as a whole, he is not raising the BMI significantly, and is probably offset by some flabby guy with light bones. For the population as a whole, BMI is probably a fairly accurate indicator of fitness.

From the perspective of the fat guy, he is probably better off diving and risking a heart attack than continuing to lay on the couch and insure one. And if a love of diving motivates him to start an exercise regimen, better still.

 

[stepup]

To me I think the article is complete and total B.S. the fact of the matter is that inexperience often leads to death. But to say being fat has something to do with it is complete and total ignorrance. If being fat was the sole cause of death what happened to them. I mean what you are saying is that fat people have poor skills. I haven't been diving very long but I'm safe and I try to work on my skills every time I dive and I'm fat so OH GOD I CAN'T DIVE ANYMORE I'M GONNA DIE CAUSE I AM FAT. I mean to me thats just some B.S. article and B.S. statistic. Just my 0.02.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You're right, there is a lot of generalizing in the article. But, I don't think that discounts the point they are trying to make.

If I had to guess, yes, just a guess, I'd say that recreational divers as a whole match the general population as a whole. I might be wrong though, but I'd bet a beer I'm not too far off. [/QUQOTE]

That wouldn't be my guess but I don't have any numbers either. You're on for a beer.

You are generalizing here as well. Far lower risk of what? Death from DCS due to poor skills, or death from a heart attack due to poor health?

Maybe I'm generalizing but as I already mentioned DAN reports that buoyancy control problems are reported in 4X% of the dives that result in fatality. When they reported the statistic, buoyancy control problems were reported in 6X% of the dives that resulted in injury.

Now, we can't end up with more than 100% here. Eventually you get to the question...which has the greater correlation to diving accidents, buoyancy control or obesity?

There, IMO, is just no sense in worrying about obesity, which the industry has little or no control over before worrying about buoyancy control which it has quit a bit of ontrol over.

The agency sells certifications and the magazines sell subscriptions and advertising. They are both full of it. You'd be better off reading the National Inquirer.

 

[tedtim]

...For the population as a whole, BMI is probably a fairly accurate indicator of fitness.

BMI is not an indicator of fitness. It is a measure of body fat based on height and weight. The National Institute of Health has some good information on BMI and its limitations at http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/obesity/lose_wt/risk.htm#limitations

The assessment of overweight involves three factors:
BMI;
waist circumference; and
risk factors for diseases and conditions associated with obesity

I suggest that it is the combination of these that should be the focus and not just BMI.

 

[MikeFerrara]

To me I think the article is complete and total B.S. the fact of the matter is that inexperience often leads to death. But to say being fat has something to do with it is complete and total ignorrance. If being fat was the sole cause of death what happened to them. I mean what you are saying is that fat people have poor skills. I haven't been diving very long but I'm safe and I try to work on my skills every time I dive and I'm fat so OH GOD I CAN'T DIVE ANYMORE I'M GONNA DIE CAUSE I AM FAT. I mean to me thats just some B.S. article and B.S. statistic. Just my 0.02.

The ability to perform diving tasks or not seems like it should correlate well to the risk of diving.

The reasonable question here is, how does obesity effect one's ability to perform diving related tasks. This isn't really a simple question because it would depend on the dive wouldn't it? Which tasks does it effect and which effect safety on the dives that are being done. Doing easy dives at resorts doesn't take much but poor diving skills could still get you killed.

Even without statistics, as divers, can't we speculate on which skills are most important while diving? Maybe the skills that are used most? What about the skills that the average certification agency requires? A ten minute float? A swim? But wait, they don't all require that any longer. Have you ever seen an obese diver who couldn't float? Bupoyancy control? Air sharing?

If they are going to try to relate obesity to diving problems, it would seem reasonable to shoe a direct relationship to div related tasks and, at that, the tasks divers are failing at that are getting them hurt.

 

[Charlie59]

I can appreciate that people who are obese want to dive and don't care if they die doing it (I guess). I do not understand how they can be so glib as to not worry about their buddies who may die trying to get their lard asses out of the water.

I believe that the point of the article is to warn people that weight and poor fitness are not a good idea for diving and that there are statistics to justify the warning. While I have no problem with the individual choosing to put themselves at risk, I cannot see choosing to put others at risk.

P.S. I would read the article or the DAN info before damning the info.

 

[OHGoDive]

Now, we can't end up with more than 100% here. Eventually you get to the question...which has the greater correlation to diving accidents, buoyancy control or obesity?

There, IMO, is just no sense in worrying about obesity, which the industry has little or no control over before worrying about buoyancy control which it has quit a bit of ontrol over.

I'm not sure. Certainly there can be overlap on causes or contributing factors. If I'm a new diver at 60fsw and have a coronary event, I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to control my bouyancy regardless of my skill level. So, if I end up injured, was it due to poor skills (being unable to control my bouyancy), or the initial coronary event, or both?

I don't think that you can control good health (any more than you can mandate good habits), but you can sure educate people that they can and do have control over it. Efforts to diminish the effect of poor physical health on divers is just as bad as trying to diminish the effect of poor skills on divers.

I don't think the Enquirer is in the job of education. Undercurrent is trying to educate, and while they are trying to sell subscriptions, they do it without advertising, so I'm a bit less skeptical of them.

 

[wreckchick]

Let's just throw a wrench in this one, shall we?

I'm going to speak in generalities, I'll stipulate that there are exceptions.

We can all agree that poor buoyancy control can create diving situations that are less safe, but not often fatal.

Weighting issues often lead to problems with buoyancy control, especially in newer divers.

A diver that has more body fat needs more lead to compensate for the relative 'lightness' of fat tissue over muscle.

If you add neoprene to the equation there needs to be more neoprene to cover a larger person.

Neoprene itself needs lead to offset it's inherent buoyancy.

Therefore, the more neoprene needed to cover a diver, the more lead needed for the offset.

Neoprene also compresses at depth to become less buoyant and needs more air in the BC to compensate.

The swing between the inherent buoyancy of neoprene at the surface vs. at depth becomes a greater factor the more neoprene is involved.

I don't think there is no relationship between getting a larger diver weighted properly given the relationship between the inherent buoyancy of a fully kitted diver and the neoprene compression at depth PLUS the difficulty in weighting divers with a higher percentage of body fat.

Anyone who has worked with significant numbers of divers will tell you that leaner individuals seem to have an easier time achieving proper weighting and good buoyancy control seems to come faster than dealing with bigger divers.

All speculation, of course.

Rachel

 

[Charlie59]

The point about weights was in the article as well and a valid point.