Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[in_cavediver]

So in the study of deaths, what variable was loaded on obese divers? You can not add assumptions or you modify the data. There is no reason to believe, and the DAN folks did not, that such variables only affect obese divers.

You have no data to add that supports your contention, you only attack the existing data. Assuming that all plane crashes involve planes that serve Coke on the flight has no bearing on the crash.

Here is one BIG question for you to answer. How did you find BMI to be a variable that was unique enough to come out and be significant? I mean, is it a predictor of dive death irregardless of anything else?

I also challenge you to give me a representive population of active divers, not the general population. (Diving has selective pressures which skew the distrobution of characteristics of divers). Then and only then, could you begin to make an arguement for causality. Of course, you would also have to prove that the results were anything other than random chance noise as well.

But that's all well though analysis and you don't want to do that.

 

[boulderjohn]

sigh. okay. you are right. You go ahead and legally consume all the trans fats you like. But....you might gain weight.

Aaarrrgghhh!

I am not saying they are good for you.

I am not saying that you won't gain weight by eating food that is high in fat--ANY FAT.

YOU keep saying that trans fats were banned because they make you fat. That is simply not true, and I was trying to point that out. They were banned for another reason altogether. They are no more fattening or less fattening than any other fat.

 

[in_cavediver]

Once more, which variable did they add to obesity to get this outcome. What could there be in obese divers that would weight the increase in deaths if not health. Do obese people get stupid underwater, clearly not. Do they buy worse gear, not likely.

Support your contention that the information does not include assumptions of equality.

To answer that, I ask one question. What is the distribution of BMI over the DIVING population (adjusted to be a Dives done by BMI range). One hint, I doubt its the BMI distribution of the general public.

Then we can compute the real incidence rate of accident and see if its significantly different.

 

[mdb]

Obese folks are, from most studies, way more inclined to have problems in any sport or activity. "I'm fat but I'm a great diver" could well be true. It does not say all that much. Diving is pretty easy even for those who are "tech divers" loaded up with their doubles, can lights, deco bottles, etc, for a dive that, in many cases, could be easily made with a single tank. Lou Fead, one fine instructor, wrote a great book, "Easy Diver" Lou always taught- take only what you need don't complicate the dive.

 

[Cacia]

If trans fats make it possible to put donuts in a vending machine in public schools and service it only once a week, then yes, that becomes true. If the product cannot be sold cheaply, then 1) it cannot be consumed 2) will not contribute to obesity (to the same degree)

I can't help it if you cannot see the connection.

yes..you can be fat and be a great diver. But you still are more likely to have a heart attack (and a whole host of other things). Even if you have a pony...even if you have a buddy. There is no disputing this.

take only what you need don't complicate the dive.

oh..I like that. Goes with my anti-redundant personal dive philosophy.

One tank, one knife.

 

[Charlie59]

Trans fats taste better, you eat more, you gain more weight. They then screw your vascular beds and you die. Ouch

Sometimes in science we measure an event. If we see a trend in our data we have to then work to understand it. The pressure that changed the status of these divers is that they died and they were disproportionately obese compared to the population. Clearly this is not the last of the investigation. It is something to consider.

 

[Charlie59]

I doubt its the BMI distribution of the general public.

I agree, I believe that divers as a group are less likely to have a BMI over 30 than the general population. That would make the obesity finding even more interesting.

 

[Cacia]

I am not saying that you won't gain weight by eating food that is high in fat--ANY FAT.

FWIW...not true.

Olive oil, avocados...well, you need to study nutrition a bit.

Old school, just counting calories is not really cutting it these days.

good fats, bad fats...you seem a bit behind.

I too, think the diving community seems to be generally overindulgent, as a group Not only food...but alcohol too. I would like to see us tackle the problems...not each other.

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree, I believe that divers as a group are less likely to have a BMI over 30 than the general population. That would make the obesity finding even more interesting.

Are you sure?

As the DAN Alert Diver article pointed out, because muscle gain raises the BMI, and because people with active, athletic lifestyles are more likely to have increased muscle mass. If scuba attracts a lot of people who exercise regularly and have increased muscle mass, you could well be wrong. I don't know. I have seen nothing to tell me what is true, and I don't care to make an assumption.

To look at an extreme example, the vast majority of NFL football players are obese according to the BMI, and almost all of the NBA is overweight.

 

[Tigerman]

FWIW...not true.

Olive oil, avocados...well, you need to study nutrition a bit.

Old school, just counting calories is not really cutting it these days.

good fats, bad fats...you seem a bit behind.

I too, think the diving community seems to be generally overindulgent, as a group Not only food...but alcohol too. I would like to see us tackle the problems...not each other.

3000 calories aint just 3000 calories anymore.. It was much easier when it was tho.. (altho we just thought it was, but what the hey)