Unbiased regulator comparison?

[bvmjethead]

Well the "independent" testing that I can find and subscribe to all seems to give Atomic Regs the consistently highest ratings overall.

So I went with them.

They are a bit more $$. Great for them, crappy internet policy, but great for their dealers.

I've got a Z2 on the way.

 

[D_B]

Just curious ... what about the ANSI tests conducted at Scuba Diving Mag? ... The ANSTI Machine: Evaluating A Regulator's Breathing Characteristics - Scuba Diving Magazine
and ... How to Read A Breathing Loop - Scuba Diving Magazine

IF they are tested as claimed, would you be safe in the assumption that a reg that does well on the ANSI tests, would more likely perform better than one that does less well?

 

[PhilEllis]

Just curious ... what about the ANSI tests conducted at Scuba Diving Mag? ... The ANSTI Machine: Evaluating A Regulator's Breathing Characteristics - Scuba Diving Magazine
and ... How to Read A Breathing Loop - Scuba Diving Magazine

IF they are tested as claimed, would you be safe in the assumption that a reg that does well on the ANSI tests, would more likely perform better than one that does less well?

ANSI testing such as that done by Oceanic, Aqua Lung, Scuba Diving Magazine, and other manufactures is an important test. It does a wonderful job of testing the "breathing design integrity" of a regulator. However, there is much more to it than that.

I think to properly evaluate a regulator, you need to determine things like..........

1. the ergonomic "feel" of the regulator when it is being used..does it pull, does it feel heavy in the mouth, does it radically change breathing characteristics when invented..things like that.

2. You also need to know how the regulator preforms as increased demand is placed on the regulator..... Does the breathing effort increase considerable as the flow rate increases? Is there an abrupt crossover point on a regulator with a venturi design? Does the regulator "cycle" fast enough to prevent overbreathing?

3. Does the flow rate of the regulator provide for supporting the demand of multiple divers?

4. Does the second stage have design or construction faults that cause micro-leaks in the air box during inhalation. This can result in a very "wet" breathing cycle.

These are things that are not obvious when you look at the inhalation/exhalation envelope created by the ANSI testing machines. I think it is equally important to look at the dynamic flow characteristics of a regulator. These are tests performed by a good regulator technician. They should be done on every regulator prior to delivery to the customer and they should be done after any service is performed on a regulator. Much can be learned by looking at the Atmospheric Inhalation Graph of a regulator. It tells you the performance of the regulator under various levels of demand. Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

 

[PhilEllis]

One of the problems with gear reviews in magazines is that the one reg selected represents all of them of that model. So if the reg is hand picked and tuned and sent from the factory it may not represent a real life off the shelf reg. On the other hand, if person in charge of the testing picks one off the shelf that has not been properly tuned or checked by the dive shop (or worse an on-line retailer) then the reg accurately measures the poor quality of the one dealer involved, not neccesarily the reg model. This is a valid concern as if you bought the same reg from an LDS and it was not breathing well, you could return it to have them retune it. So there is some merit to both sides of the argument.

To get an accurate picture of a particular reg model, you'd need to test several regs from several sources and the only place where you can get that kind of input is here on Scubaboard where a question about a particular model will get a variety of responses from a number of divers of different expereince levels each with a different regulator of that model used in a wide range of conditions. Some of the posters will have more experience than opthers and will have a better basis for comparision, but the general quality and performance of a regulator model quickly becomes apparent.

And while Scubaboard does sell advertising, it has no impact on what a particular members says about a company's products. That is not the case with many dive magazines where there is often some pressure to soften an otherwise very harsh review of a regulator sold by a company that spends big money on advertising.

I agree with this to a certain point. I think that ANY regulator should be properly set-up and tuned prior to any testing. After all, this is what will be done when you purchase it from a dealer...brick and mortar or online. I don't think the manufacturers ever intend for a regulator to be delivered to a customer without advance testing and set-up by the dealer.

What would be really unfair would be to tune a regulator JUST FOR AN ANSI TEST. You can make many regulator breathe really easy, but be unreliable for real world use. This would clearly affect the inhalation portion of the breathing envelope unrealistic. It would not, however, affect the exhalation (top) portion of the graph.

Phil Ellis

 

[D_B]

Thanks Phill
They do say that diving the reg is just as important in the first link provided, and the second link is of the Graph you mention

It's hard to get info, you can go to websites of the manufacturers, read what features make there stuff better/different .. but a machine has some more concrete results ... using all of that info, coupled with asking questions here, is the best resource ... I was lucky, while I did look at regulator reviews, in the end I listened to the advice of my instructor .. "get good, solid, middle of the road, regs, avoid "entry level" regs, not because they're unsafe (none are) but because good gear can last a lifetime of diving and you do not want to purchase an OK reg and find you want to upgrade soon afterwords"
I'm very happy with with my Mk18/G250HP and I find out here that it's a very good performer

 

[PhilEllis]

Thanks Phill
They do say that diving the reg is just as important in the first link provided, and the second link is of the Graph you mention

It's hard to get info, you can go to websites of the manufacturers, read what features make there stuff better/different .. but a machine has some more concrete results ... using all of that info, coupled with asking questions here, is the best resource ... I was lucky, while I did look at regulator reviews, in the end I listened to the advice of my instructor .. "get good, solid, middle of the road, regs, avoid "entry level" regs, not because they're unsafe (none are) but because good gear can last a lifetime of diving and you do not want to purchase an OK reg and find you want to upgrade soon afterwords"
I'm very happy with with my Mk18/G250HP and I find out here that it's a very good performer

Diving Beagle....this might be of some interest to you. Atmospheric Inhalation Testing.

Atmospheric Inhalation Testing Explained

Phil Ellis

 

[D_B]

Thanks ... Fixed the link ... Regulator Testing - Atmospheric Inhalation Resistance Testing for Regulators

and It's just DB (my initials)

 

[*Floater*]

Those tests are okay, but they omit some vital info.

1. Reliability/extreme conditions: How long will the reg survive on average if you dive it in silty waters? How reliable is it? How does it fare in ice diving? (Of course they cannot test the first two but it's vital info to the buyer. They could speculate based on design I guess - the simpler the design the more reliable the reg I assume.)

2. Manufacturer reputation: How's the company's product support history? The buyer should know if the particular company they are about to buy from is in the habit of abandoning support and replacement parts for older models.

3. Availability and cost of service: In which regions can you expect service for the particular reg brand? You may need to have it serviced when traveling or if you move. And for how much?

4. Ease of self-service and availability/cost of service kits: Many tech divers especially prefer to service their own gear so it would be nice if the reviews addressed this issue as well.

5. Known issues: Anything else the buyer should know?

 

[Web Monkey]

Well the "independent" testing that I can find and subscribe to all seems to give Atomic Regs the consistently highest ratings overall.

So I went with them.

They are a bit more $$. Great for them, crappy internet policy, but great for their dealers.

I've got a Z2 on the way.

You'll love it. I have an M1 and Z1 (model before yours) and they both breathe like a dream even when sharing air deep. I don't know what the maximum flow rate is, but it's huge.

Terry

 

[bvmjethead]

Phil, are there physical screws or something else that needs to be fiddled with by the dealer to tune my new regulator to me personally?

Should my instructor be the one to do this?

Thanks for your posts!