Unbelievable video?

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I wonder about the content of the website in general. Underwatertr's vids are weird. Why would you post that stuff? Divedive's vid with the pufferfish is also showing exactly what not to do. I'm also tempted to sign up to comment. I guess I'm a fuddy duddy.
 
No... I didn't think I missed your point point at all. Your point is that YOUR daughter has been trained in a manner and to a level YOU find acceptable based on what YOU have been taught is appropriate... Your point is that you find children being put adult diving situations is OK with you if "done right"... You're point is that... in YOUR opinion, what you think you see in a video clip doesn't match up with YOUR standards and is therefore 'child endangerment' and 'evil'...

Pretty close???

... and YOU have apparently missed My point...

1: How do you know the child is "getting training" and isn't already a diver?
2: How you know what depth they were working at?
3: How do you know...

Oh heck, you're going to see what you WANT to see anyway... some see flailing arms, out of control people, lack of expertise, etc., etc...

I see a dad who may well be in fairly shallow water and is dealing with the fact that each breath cycle has that much more affect when shallow... I see a dad (?) showing off his kid's skills... I see a kid who's got a weightbelt on... and is trimmed out pretty well... and COMFORTABLE WITH IT. I see a rather 'practiced' Euro-style kiss at the end where BOTH remove their regs... go throught the drill and replace... all without any apparent hesitation, difficulty or other issue. I see a kid who does a nifty 'hand swap' with his reg earlier... in a very relaxed way...

... but, like I said we see what we want to see.

I'll take your word for it that your daughter is competent... I have no reason to believe otherwise... but I'm pretty sure that there are any number of people out there who... seeing things the way they WANT to see them... might have issues with what you seem to take a lot of pride in... they see boogy-men you don't... they have fears for your daughter that you don't... and their risk tollerance doesn't match yours...

... kinda' like making judgements about what you think you see in a video based on your own perceptions of "what's right"...

You are listed as a divemaster. Therefore you should know better than to spout this.
You can see the kid with good trim. Of course he has No gear on. He is not holding his air source- something he should do when sharing air. He is not holding the donor's BC. He loses that out of his mouth or Dad has an issue and that child has NO AIR SOURCE. How safe is that? You should know better.

This has nothing to do with seeing my perspective only. This has to do with safety. Anyone without their own BC and air, is at risk. Evil? Those are your words. I said stupid and unsafe.
 
1: How do you know the child is "getting training" and isn't already a diver?
2: How you know what depth they were working at?
3: How do you know...

How do you know is a very, very good question, and one that's covered repeatedly in training. How do you know what will happen on a dive and how do you handle it? This question in answered through drilling OOA drills, air sharing, regulator recovery, and other procedures designed to deal with minor problems during a dive. So, you train for instances where you get separated from your buddy, where a regulator first or second stage fails or free flows, etc. You figure if these things happen, no big deal, you're prepared.

Now take away your bc, your tank, your regulator, and any safety/signaling devices in your bc. You are now handicapped in dealing with any otherwise minor problems, not to mention breathing more air due to decreased buoyancy control. Serious scuba accidents happen when problems compound in a series; forgoing basic life support equipment for yourself or someone else is the step towards a series of problems.


Oh heck, you're going to see what you WANT to see anyway... some see flailing arms, out of control people, lack of expertise, etc., etc...

I see a dad who may well be in fairly shallow water and is dealing with the fact that each breath cycle has that much more affect when shallow... I see a dad (?) showing off his kid's skills... I see a kid who's got a weightbelt on... and is trimmed out pretty well... and COMFORTABLE WITH IT. I see a rather 'practiced' Euro-style kiss at the end where BOTH remove their regs... go throught the drill and replace... all without any apparent hesitation, difficulty or other issue. I see a kid who does a nifty 'hand swap' with his reg earlier... in a very relaxed way...

So the presence of a weight belt somehow makes it safe and acceptable? If the kid didn't have a weight belt but seemed comfortable would that make just having a mask and fins okay? Would you, as a DM, seriously be comfortable leading a dive where one person tells you "I'm just gonna breath of his octo, don't worry we've done this before"? You refer to "their regs ... his reg", but it's all the adults regulator set, if a first stage failure occurs their both out of air; not a problem when each has their own regs and tank. Also, removing your regulator from your mouth shows skill :confused: There's no regulator recovery drill here and panicked/inexperienced divers seem very good at removing their regulators.

... but, like I said we see what we want to see.

... kinda' like making judgements about what you think you see in a video based on your own perceptions of "what's right"...

You're a Divemaster, when you see a diver who forgets to turn on his/her air in a predive setup and gets ready to roll of the boat do you say to yourself "it's okay, their buddy will turn it on once they realize" or do you tell them "hold on, your air's off" and fix the problem? If you're underwater and someone's regulator free flows, they turn off their air (or run out) grab their buddy's octo and continue diving, do you go over and tell them they should thumb the dive or do you let them continue on without signaling it's a bad idea? Each of these situations puts a buddy team in a similar situation to the video, and despite how good their trim is or how long they've dived, it's still not "right."

Regardless, nothing I say can convince you that their diving is hazardous and wrong. I guess reading through accident reports resulting from buddy separation or equipment failure (when both divers had their own equipment) wouldn't change your mind either. Perhaps you should mail your certifying agency and tell them ahead of time, "Hey, I'm willing to DM dives with buddy teams where only one of the buddies has a tank, bc, and regulator set; they're shallow dives and everyone's comfortable with breathing off their buddy's octo." If you wouldn't be willing to do this, or if you are but just won't tell your agency about it, then maybe you ought to ask yourself why you won't. If you are, please post the agencies response for us all to read and enjoy.
 
Dtaine...

I'm not going to give a 'knee jerk' reaction to your baiting any more than I'm willing to give a 'knee jerk' reaction to the video. YOU are talking about analyzing hypothetical real actions on a hypothetical real dive... (... and a fine job you've done too... point out all of the obvious truths....)

I'm talking about analyzing a bit of video outside of any context beyond what the maker intended us to see and which was not shared with us... (did you know that magic is indistinguishable from a 'rigged demo'???)

I will NOT (as a good DM) jump to irrational conclusions based on what I don't know... it's the first step toward "stress"... and stress is the first step to hysteria (panic)... and hysteria impares thinking/acting... (you may have read this in your PADI manual during your certification)...

... which in turn can become a contributing factor to all kinds of ugly things... (... like suggesting that I should mail my certifying agency saying that I'm willing to dive with buddy teams with only one tank... just because I won't jump to the same conclusions you do...)

... and if you get twitchy about this video... I'd suggest you don't watch any "Sea Hunt" videos... Mike Nelson doesn't apparently believe in surface intervals... MODs or any of that other stuff that will do in a modern diver... don't know if this is because we're less "manly" than Mike... or simply that Sea Hunt IS A DARN TELEVISION SHOW... (note... the *diving* you see is real... it's the context that isn't...)...
 
:popcorn: :angrymob: :censored:




I thought about posting this and showing everyone that the cat does not display any skills nor he does not have his own SCUBA unit. But look at him skulling the bottom :shocked2: :no: or is he actually walking :confused: :confused: I was not taught to walk...


I think by me posting this, I am trying hard to say :deadhorse:
 
J.R. ... I'm not even going to attempt to touch the can of worms you guys are feasting on there with a 10 foot pole, I value my sanity too much. I do however want to address your potential reasons for this guy's sculling with his hands.

Being shallow and upright is NOT an excuse for arm waving. It is quite clearly a very clear sign that the diver is inexperienced, no question about it. I can hover, I can kneel, I can swim, I can do anything and everything in any position in water so shallow if I deviate by a foot my fins will break the surface ... all without using my arms at all. I think you will find it the same for all 'experienced divers'.

So without tackling the question of whether or not what this video shows is 'right' or 'responsible' we can definitely conclude that the man in it is inexperienced. The arm waving is a dead giveaway, there is no excuse for it.

Edit: it is also not just a question of him sculling with his arms, it is a question of how much he does it. He constantly does it without stopping. An experienced diver who might use their arms a little (maybe because they aren't weighted right or are a little stressed because their son is in the water with them) but not as much as this guys does.

He does it WAY WAY WAAAAAY too much to be experienced.
 
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Hey Guys,

I just wanted to share my .02 psi. I am so new to scuba that I do not have my OW yet. Now I have a son that is 2 right now. I do not know how much he is going to like the water when he is about 9 or 10, but as of now if I get him in a pool I have to call his mother to take him out because he will scream his life a way to stay in it. I come from a family of swimmers, and I plan for my son to be in swimming classes soon. What I am trying to say is that this guy just posted the video and did not provide any more info. I am not saying that what he did is right. But we do not know if the guy is in 10' of water or in 60'. We do not know if the kid knows how to swim or not. I have to say that if I want to make a video to show how good my son is under water I will have him wearing his own tank. It doesn't matter if he is going to be using mine or not. The only way that I would think of doing what the guy did is to do it in a pool in less than 10' of water where I have more control of anything that can go wrong, and I know that I can get him to the surface with out worring about nothing else. I know that the video was shoot in the middle east but that is about it. I think that if you do not want to use a bc on the kid at least you should have an extra tank there for the kid to breath from just in case that something goes south on the dive. One thing that I am learning while in my OW class is that safety is paramount and it should not be ignored. I am not saying that is completly wrong I am just saying that we need more info regarding the video.
Just my .02psi
 
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to share my .02 psi. I am so new to scuba that I do not have my OW yet. Now I have a son that is 2 right now. I do not know how much he is going to like the water when he is about 9 or 10, but as of now if I get him in a pool I have to call his mother to take him out because he will scream his life a way to stay in it. I come from a family of swimmers, and I plan for my son to be in swimming classes soon. What I am trying to say is that this guy just posted the video and did not provide any more info. I am not saying that what he did is right. But we do not know if the guy is in 10' of water or in 60'. We do not know if the kid knows how to swim or not. I have to say that if I want to make a video to show how good my son is under water I will have him wearing his own tank. It doesn't matter if he is going to be using mine or not. The only way that I would think of doing what the guy did is to do it in a pool in less than 10' of water where I have more control of anything that can go wrong, and I know that I can get him to the surface with out worring about nothing else. I know that the video was shoot in the middle east but that is about it. I think that if you do not want to use a bc on the kid at least you should have an extra tank there for the kid to breath from just in case that something goes south on the dive. One thing that I am learning while in my OW class is that safety is paramount and it should not be ignored. I am not saying that is completly wrong I am just saying that we need more info regarding the video.
Just my .02psi

We don't need to know all of those things. We know that the kid doesn't have his own breathing supply much less a back-up. We know that he doesn't have the required gear for scuba diving. We know that they are at ANY depth. (Doesn't matter if it's 60 or 10 feet) We can see from the video that the adult is inexperienced. Even an instructor shouldn't have a kid without most of his gear breathing off of his octo, much less an inexperienced non-instructor. All of this is enough to know that this guy is endangering the kid and himself. It's not an assumption, it's obvious to me from the video.
 
We don't need to know all of those things. We know that the kid doesn't have his own breathing supply much less a back-up. We know that he doesn't have the required gear for scuba diving. We know that they are at ANY depth. (Doesn't matter if it's 60 or 10 feet) We can see from the video that the adult is inexperienced. Even an instructor shouldn't have a kid without most of his gear breathing off of his octo, much less an inexperienced non-instructor. All of this is enough to know that this guy is endangering the kid and himself. It's not an assumption, it's obvious to me from the video.


So... just out of curiosity... how do you feel about hookas or snuba??? Dangerous at 10 feet???
 
So... just out of curiosity... how do you feel about hookas or snuba??? Dangerous at 10 feet???

Funny, the same thing just came to mind while thinking about all of this.

Not a big fan of snuba myself.
 

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