Unbelievable video?

[String]

Some of the technical level courses that require large(ish) distances to be swum underwater with no reg the last thing i want to do there is exhale. I want every bit of gas i can get to make sure i get there.

 

[kadleck]

Well, yeah...how else would you breathe underwater?

Simply, what that means is that you do not take a huge breath of air right before you remove the reg - as it'll affect your buoyancy and position in the water column. Also, if you remove your reg while you're on an inhale, you don't have to start blowing bubbles like a madman - just time your exhale and rate as you would do normally, as if the reg was still in your mouth. Of course, don't inhale with the reg still out of your mouth.

The point is, that you don't need to be constantly blowing bubbles every second a reg is out of your mouth. It can be a good way to teach new divers because chances are they won't have the situational awareness or presence of mind to keep an open airway on ascent, but just because someone is not blowing bubbles doesn't mean they're doing things wrong.

Thanks - I did, of course, realise what you meant - I just thought the way you initially phrased it was amusing.

I still find myself in the fuddy-duddy brigade though. The breath holding is not the thing that disturbs me most, either.

 

[Dtaine]

I do understand the basic premise of those here who disagree with this video, but not to the extent of ridiculing the guy.

Yes, the absolute FIRST thing I would do if I ever had a newbie on my octo would be to train them to constantly breathe and never hold their breath, then do constant exhale upon reg removal - all this would be overstated constantly on the surface before submerging. Then upon submerging, immediately (after getting comfortable breathing) do a number of reg removal drills from shallow depths while showing exhale bubbles.

Hell, in my OW training and checkout dives, I was only required to do this only once (in the ocean)!

How do we know that the guy in the video did not already do this "never-hold-your-breath" training with the kid? Why do we assume that this was the kids first time underwater in scuba?

It is incorrect to assume these skills were not done before, I'll give you that. However, if you never practice regulator recovery while wearing a bc or backplate is the training really of any use? The kid was able to "recover" the regulator because he never had to let go of it. In my training you took out the regulator and tossed it behind you, out of sight - you then had to swing your arm back and pull in the hose. If this kid is training regulator recovery without ever actually recovering a regulator, then the drill is useless.

What about the fact that it is good to practice breathing on an octo?

Breathing from an octo is a good skill to practice, but let's remember the premise behind the skill. You turn to a buddy's octo when either your regs stop working or you're running out of air. So, let's look at the diver's equipment configuration in this video, two divers, one tank, two second stages. If the tank's air supply is drained (regulator free flow anyone) or one of the second stages stops working you either have two divers on an OOA emergency ascent or two divers buddy breathing. This means that the entire skill being "practiced" (breathing on an octo) is useless should the emergency situation arise.

If we knew for certain that this filming took place at the very moment that the kid ever used SCUBA equipment, and we were certain that he never had the non-breath-hold training, then I would sympathise more with the majority views.

My wife and I are going to Hawaii in the spring, and she is considering a discover scuba course, but her issues are the clausterphobic feeling of the equipment. While I do not plan to have her try my octo in a few feet UW just to get her comfortable (Discover course will be way better for her psychologically under an instructor), I would not be against the idea if she is willing.

Does she get claustrophobic from being under water or from being in the equipment? The only reason I ask is just being on an octo underwater won't fix the equipment claustrophobia just like wearing the equipment around the house wouldn't fix the fear of being under water. Just trying to get comfortable is different than going on a dive with a bad configuration. Regardless, I hope your vacation goes well.

My and RoatanMan's view might be polar opposite to the majority here, and we may very well appear be too extreme simply to provide a counterpoint view, but you have to admit that we are a society that is self-crippling because we are taught that we will die if we step outside the rulebook for even a moment.

I love it when old school divers show up and shake us back into reality - Thnx RoatanMan.

(putting on my asbestos suit right now)

Is it true that society is overly cautious when it comes to kids? Yea, it's true, but some things are just a bad idea. OW training teaches (or is supposed to teach) divers how to handle situations should something go wrong. Those situations are easy to deal with when every diver has his/her own tank, bc or plate, and regulators. Failing to have this for every diver makes the assumption that you won't get separated, that you won't have a first or second stage failure in your regulator, or that any number of other problems won't happen. Nobody plans on these things happening, but assuming that they won't, and not having the proper equipment to deal with them should they occur, is just bad diving.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

You know, I find that Roatanman makes a great arguement that I thoroughly said," Hell yeah!", to, but then.....
This is the thing..

As a parent:
If I stand by the idea that I should be able to understand theory, and learn to independently control myself and my gear, why would I omit that for my child?
I want to be trained well and correctly, but because it's My kid, I should cut corners and let him learn by piggybacking with me? Fun for him, but stupid on my part.

And don't give me the -you are just being over-protective and fussy- thing here. My just turned 11 year old daughter has 87 dives. She is advanced certified. She gets to stay on the boat when conditions are too rough for our regular rec divers. She dives the hard stuff with just the DM's, instructors, tech guys, and no one else allowed. Because she has the skill. Haley can make a back roll, negative entry, dropping in at 1 foot vis in a ripping current. No problem, and no issue. Because we made her train just like anyone else and Dive. She loves this sport. She does blackwater river dives, night dives, and is wreck certified(she can run a line as well as anyone I've ever seen).
BUT, there is a difference between letting kids stretch their wings and placing them in possibly deadly situations.
I too grew up with gravel on the playground, climbing trees, and running through the woods. I had a motorcycle when I was 7 years old. But this guy in the video is stupid and endangering that child. Most likely with all good intentions. I only hope it doesn't all go south on him.

As An Instructor:

I Will not condone or approve Any of that. For actually, most of the reasons above. Everyone should understand pressure, volume, currents, tides, dive planning, equipment-All of it- assembly and use. They Should have every opportunity to learn and practice in a safe atmosphere where they can learn problem-solving skills. Can that kid help himself? Doubt it. Can Dad?
We all did things very differently in the old days. Do you really want to go back to the many injuries and deaths by the unknowing, while you let them explore and figure it out on their own?

I waited until my kids were old enough to train formally under an agency. Could I have taught them myself? Yeah. But, what instructor am I if I break my own rules and standards just because it's My kid? I didn't. Anyway. I am with you GUBA.
Does this mean I have to turn in my James Dean Fan Club card?

 

[J.R.]

But this guy in the video is stupid and endangering that child. Most likely with all good intentions. I only hope it doesn't all go south on him.

How?

What depth are they at?
What support is in the immediate area (besides the cameraman)?
What is the dive background/water experience of the child?
What is the dive background of the "guy in the video"?

Personally I don't see an ounce of difference between your description of your daughter's history and this video... neither are situations I'd *personally* be comfortable putting a child into... but then... there are also too many things in both scenerios I *don't* know to make an informed condemnation...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Other than the failure to blow bubbles when the reg was out, the only potentially valid criticism of the video is the lack of first stage redundancy for the Dad and kid. However, the camera man provides that. The water looked quite shallow to me, like 15-25 feet based on the shadows and the light and dark areas caused by waves. If the first stage failed, the dad could esily put the kid on the videographer's tank and he swims up (without holding his breath).

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

Look how much the guy waves his own arms around. Too bad this isn't in the states and can't be reported to child services.

 

[J.R.]

Look how much the guy waves his own arms around. Too bad this isn't in the states and can't be reported to child services.

Waving your arms is child abuse???

 

[4sak3n]

I actually had to stop watching after the first 30 seconds or so. All that arm waving was emotionally disturbing. :depressed:

There was a little voice in my head saying "Make it stop, make it stop, MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOP!"

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

Waving your arms is child abuse???

Those were two separate points. The whole video is full of child endangerment. I was referring to his inexperience with the waving of the arms.